Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

[CarltonTheBear]

reporterchris: Randy Carlyle says he wants Morgan Rielly to simplify his game. "We're doing the same thing with Jake Gardiner."

If the Leafs wanted a simple defenceman they wouldn't have drafted Rielly or traded for Gardiner.

 

[Corn Flake]

Aki Berg is like a bad acid flashback.. what about Lumme or Cory Cross, Jackman and others..at least this corps is better unless we can clone Salming and Turnbull.

My guess is 25/30 teams have at least 1-2 d-men who fall into the category of giving fans and coaches fits nearly every night.  Not many teams from 1 to 6 are steady and wart-free.

 

[Frank E]

reporterchris: Randy Carlyle says he wants Morgan Rielly to simplify his game. "We're doing the same thing with Jake Gardiner."

If the Leafs wanted a simple defenceman they wouldn't have drafted Rielly or traded for Gardiner.

You're a little too hard on Carlyle for anything...that's not bad advice for any young d-man with offensive skills.

I see it in the games when they're trying to make something out of nothing, and they get into trouble.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Franson leads the team in hits by a wide margin.

And he's actually second among all NHL defencemen in hits too. I didn't realize that until Siegel mentioned it in his article today.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

You're a little too hard on Carlyle for anything...that's not bad advice for any young d-man with offensive skills.

I see it in the games when they're trying to make something out of nothing, and they get into trouble.

You also have to let young defencemen with offensive skills take those chances and make those mistakes. I'm not saying that their coverage has been perfect in the defensive zone, but I've honestly had no issue with their play when it comes to utilizing their offensive talents. They are the best defencemen on the team when it comes to passing and skating the puck out of their zone. They are the best defencemen on the team in joining the rush. Let them play to their strengths.

 

[Corn Flake]

Franson leads the team in hits by a wide margin.

And he's actually second among all NHL defencemen in hits too. I didn't realize that until Siegel mentioned it in his article today.

I blame Carlyle for the fact you did not know this.  8)


*runs*

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Franson leads the team in hits by a wide margin.

And he's actually second among all NHL defencemen in hits too. I didn't realize that until Siegel mentioned it in his article today.

I blame Carlyle for the fact you did not know this.  8)


*runs*

That's stupid.

*runs faster*

 

[moon111]

I remember one play where Aki Berg out-muscled someone at the boards.  I know, everyone knows he wasn't the best play-maker.  There he was with the puck and the forwards were already half-way down the ice.  He was surrounded by the opposition and lost the puck.  Everyone really bashed Aki Berg.  I really don't agree on 'systems' that don't change depending upon the players on the ice.  Not everyone is Tomas Kaberle with the puck.

Starting the game, sure I would want the young hot-shot defensemen playing careful.  But behind late in the game, these young guys should be really pouring on the pressure.

 

[bustaheims]

You're a little too hard on Carlyle for anything...that's not bad advice for any young d-man with offensive skills.

I see it in the games when they're trying to make something out of nothing, and they get into trouble.

I mean, yes and no. It really depends on how they're framing it. If they're trying to get the player to focus on making the smart play instead of trying to force things, then, yes, absolutely, that's good advice for everyone - especially in the defensive zone. However, if they're trying to limit their creativity and such on the offensive side of the puck, then, not so much.

 

[Frank E]

You're a little too hard on Carlyle for anything...that's not bad advice for any young d-man with offensive skills.

I see it in the games when they're trying to make something out of nothing, and they get into trouble.

I mean, yes and no. It really depends on how they're framing it. If they're trying to get the player to focus on making the smart play instead of trying to force things, then, yes, absolutely, that's good advice for everyone - especially in the defensive zone. However, if they're trying to limit their creativity and such on the offensive side of the puck, then, not so much.

We'll agree. 

I won't give Carlyle credit for much this year, but I will say that they're trying very hard to develop Gardiner.  I wish I could see more progress in his game though. 

 

[Strangelove]

You're a little too hard on Carlyle for anything...that's not bad advice for any young d-man with offensive skills.

I see it in the games when they're trying to make something out of nothing, and they get into trouble.

I mean, yes and no. It really depends on how they're framing it. If they're trying to get the player to focus on making the smart play instead of trying to force things, then, yes, absolutely, that's good advice for everyone - especially in the defensive zone. However, if they're trying to limit their creativity and such on the offensive side of the puck, then, not so much.

We'll agree. 

I won't give Carlyle credit for much this year, but I will say that they're trying very hard to develop Gardiner.  I wish I could see more progress in his game though.

You mean other than the fact that he's by far our best passing and puck-carrying defenceman, and the only one seemingly capable of resisting Carlyle's idiotic defensive system which seems to basically amount to  "dump and chase"?

Carlyle has essentially neutered Dion and Cody's offensive games, forcing them and the other D to play positional, chip-it-out hockey that doesn't suit the skill-set of the team.  He has a very fast team looking extremely slow most nights, and honestly that's due to instructions like "simplify your game" as much as anything else.

This is the NHL and the Leafs are a skilled team with good goaltending. If simplifying their game means getting the puck out without possession, dumping it in, and hoping that the other team gives it away, then the last the they should be doing is simplifying their game.

 

[mr grieves]

Carlyle has essentially neutered Dion and Cody's offensive games, forcing them and the other D to play positional, chip-it-out hockey that doesn't suit the skill-set of the team.  He has a very fast team looking extremely slow most nights, and honestly that's due to instructions like "simplify your game" as much as anything else.

This is the NHL and the Leafs are a skilled team with good goaltending. If simplifying their game means getting the puck out without possession, dumping it in, and hoping that the other team gives it away, then the last the they should be doing is simplifying their game.

Agreed. Randy's failure is obvious when you apply cw's old measure: with this roster/ talent, are you seeing play/results that are above, at, or below expectations? More often than not, the team has been terrible in just about the opposite way that you'd expect given who's on the roster. While some guys haven't been very good, the generally poor play is, for me, hard to attribute to anything other than coaching.

 

[drummond]

If nothing else, this is pretty amazing "accomplishment": the Leafs are on pace to give up more shots in 82 games than any team in recorded NHL history.
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/12/11/how-bad-is-the-bleeding

 

[Bender]

If nothing else, this is pretty amazing "accomplishment": the Leafs are on pace to give up more shots in 82 games than any team in recorded NHL history.
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/12/11/how-bad-is-the-bleeding

That's completely bonkers. I had a feeling I've never witnessed a team allow opponent shoot so thoroughly, ever!

 

[drummond]

If nothing else, this is pretty amazing "accomplishment": the Leafs are on pace to give up more shots in 82 games than any team in recorded NHL history.
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/12/11/how-bad-is-the-bleeding

That's completely bonkers. I had a feeling I've never witnessed a team allow opponent shoot so thoroughly, ever!

the Leafs are actually worse than all expansion teams or even those bad teams from high scoring era, truly fascinating

 

[bustaheims]

If nothing else, this is pretty amazing "accomplishment": the Leafs are on pace to give up more shots in 82 games than any team in recorded NHL history.
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/12/11/how-bad-is-the-bleeding

To be fair, it's only in the last 25 seasons, but, still, yeah, yikes.

 

[dappleganger]

If nothing else, this is pretty amazing "accomplishment": the Leafs are on pace to give up more shots in 82 games than any team in recorded NHL history.
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/12/11/how-bad-is-the-bleeding

To be fair, it's only in the last 25 seasons, but, still, yeah, yikes.

And if the Leafs go on to win the cup every team will be scrambling to figure out how to give up a ton of shots.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

If nothing else, this is pretty amazing "accomplishment": the Leafs are on pace to give up more shots in 82 games than any team in recorded NHL history.
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/12/11/how-bad-is-the-bleeding

To be fair, it's only in the last 25 seasons, but, still, yeah, yikes.

I don't know how it can not be argued that right now this is the worst the Leafs have looked since pre-CuJo.  Seriously - put this performance in front of the goaltending from between the last two lockouts and I don't even want to know what the scores would look like.

We lost with some regularity in those seasons 7-0, 8-1, etc with a team that I think competed better than they have at all this season.

 

[Corn Flake]

If nothing else, this is pretty amazing "accomplishment": the Leafs are on pace to give up more shots in 82 games than any team in recorded NHL history.
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/12/11/how-bad-is-the-bleeding

To be fair, it's only in the last 25 seasons, but, still, yeah, yikes.

I don't know how it can not be argued that right now this is the worst the Leafs have looked since pre-CuJo.  Seriously - put this performance in front of the goaltending from between the last two lockouts and I don't even want to know what the scores would look like.

We lost with some regularity in those seasons 7-0, 8-1, etc with a team that I think competed better than they have at all this season.

Wow. I don't even know where to start with bad performances between then and now.  IF this is the worst I think you have a very short memory.  The 2008 28th place finish where absolutely everything went wrong is bar none the worst in my books. The season after wasn't much better.  2010 when the team went "off a cliff" in January was horrid. Far worse than this.

Also, remember when this team was going to set the record for the worst penalty kill % in history not long ago?  That didn't end up happening.  So all this panic about setting the record for shots against... calm down.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

If nothing else, this is pretty amazing "accomplishment": the Leafs are on pace to give up more shots in 82 games than any team in recorded NHL history.
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/12/11/how-bad-is-the-bleeding

To be fair, it's only in the last 25 seasons, but, still, yeah, yikes.

I don't know how it can not be argued that right now this is the worst the Leafs have looked since pre-CuJo.  Seriously - put this performance in front of the goaltending from between the last two lockouts and I don't even want to know what the scores would look like.

We lost with some regularity in those seasons 7-0, 8-1, etc with a team that I think competed better than they have at all this season.

Wow. I don't even know where to start with bad performances between then and now.  IF this is the worst I think you have a very short memory.  The 2008 28th place finish where absolutely everything went wrong is bar none the worst in my books. The season after wasn't much better.  2010 when the team went "off a cliff" in January was horrid. Far worse than this.

Also, remember when this team was going to set the record for the worst penalty kill % in history not long ago?  That didn't end up happening.  So all this panic about setting the record for shots against... calm down.

Keep your wow's for the cows (trademark pending). 

I'm not talking about the results at the end of the game - I'm talking about the way those teams played those games as a whole compared to the games they've played recently as a whole.

I'm sorry, it's either you who has a poor memory, or we just view those seasons differently.  Those teams, while lacking in skill/finish/goaltending still COMPETED far better in games than we've seen out of this group this season.  They had the worst goaltending in the league (I'm pretty confident in saying that) over that stretch, so obviously they're not going to win a lot of games.  The Islanders don't have a bad roster, but they're bad right now because they can't get a save.  Those teams couldn't get a save.  They still competed far better than this team has.

Not saying goaltending is the only reason those teams fared poorly, just the most significant one.  PK was bad (but also a function of terrible goaltending) and the rosters weren't good.  But still, it's no surprise that as soon as the goaltending was shored up that the results started to improve - it's still the most important position to have at least league average goaltending.

Those teams did not get outplayed to this degree.  In individual games?  Sure. 

What am I calming down about?  I'm not uncalm?  I'm a person typing about the Leafs on the internet, I'm not ranting and raving - this has been going on since last April before the playoffs.  That makes close to 4 months of the Leafs being utterly dominated in possession, shots, etc.  It is something that needs to be addressed badly.  It can't continue like this.

I'm calm like a bomb.