Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

[princedpw]

RIP Maple Leafs Jake Gardiner

If he's traded for anyone older than 32 or less than 3 years away from being a UFA . . .

Trading for anyone over 26 is probably a mistake.

At the moment, the Leafs are a terrible, terrible team -- they struggled with Buffalo, the worst team in the league.  They haven't beaten a good team in regulation in a month.  They can only win when they when they have outstanding goaltending.  In 30 games, their skaters have actually outplayed the other guys in just a handful of games.

Either the players as a whole are terrible or its the coach.  Either way, you can't fix it with one trade.  This should be self-evident.

Every big move Nonis makes is the opposite of what I would do so I'm expecting to be disappointed.

 

[Leaflifer]

... In 30 games, their skaters have actually outplayed the other guys in just a handful of games....

I would say this is true of most of last season too. They won many games only showing up for a period or two.

The leafs can score and have solid NHL goaltending. There is another piece of the puzzle missing, obviously an important one.

 

[princedpw]

... In 30 games, their skaters have actually outplayed the other guys in just a handful of games....

I would say this is true of most of last season too. They won many games only showing up for a period or two.

I agree. It has been true for Carlyle's entire time here.

 

[Bender]

RIP Maple Leafs Jake Gardiner

If he's traded for anyone older than 32 or less than 3 years away from being a UFA . . .

Trading for anyone over 26 is probably a mistake.

At the moment, the Leafs are a terrible, terrible team -- they struggled with Buffalo, the worst team in the league.  They haven't beaten a good team in regulation in a month.  They can only win when they when they have outstanding goaltending.  In 30 games, their skaters have actually outplayed the other guys in just a handful of games.

Either the players as a whole are terrible or its the coach.  Either way, you can't fix it with one trade.  This should be self-evident.

Every big move Nonis makes is the opposite of what I would do so I'm expecting to be disappointed.

I really don't think they're all that bad a team. I really do think this is more a case of systems than personnel, although Clarkson truly isn't panning out.

I'd like to see at least the following players stay

Reimer
Bernier
Kessel
JVR
Kadri
Lupul
Bolland
Phaneuf
Gardiner
Franson
Holland

I think you have a half decent hockey club with those players. Unfortunately key pieces like a #1C, First Pairing Dman, another quality second line winger are still hard to come by. I just don't think they're as bad or as far off as a team as their record shows.

Carlyle has got to go.

 

[nutman]

Why is Kadri on the 1st line, he should be on the second line to give us two lines that can score during all these injurys. I would have Holland on the first. Carlyle needs to wake up. In the Boston game I would never have put Kadri on the top line, he should never have been near Kessel. Boston keys in on that line, so in turn Carlyle wasted all three player when he could have had Kadri on a second line creating chances. I am fast becoming anti Carlyle.

 

[Andy007]

RIP Maple Leafs Jake Gardiner

If he's traded for anyone older than 32 or less than 3 years away from being a UFA . . .

Trading for anyone over 26 is probably a mistake.

At the moment, the Leafs are a terrible, terrible team -- they struggled with Buffalo, the worst team in the league.  They haven't beaten a good team in regulation in a month.  They can only win when they when they have outstanding goaltending.  In 30 games, their skaters have actually outplayed the other guys in just a handful of games.

Either the players as a whole are terrible or its the coach.  Either way, you can't fix it with one trade.  This should be self-evident.

Every big move Nonis makes is the opposite of what I would do so I'm expecting to be disappointed.

I really don't think they're all that bad a team. I really do think this is more a case of systems than personnel, although Clarkson truly isn't panning out.

I'd like to see at least the following players stay

Reimer
Bernier
Kessel
JVR
Kadri
Lupul
Bolland
Phaneuf
Gardiner
Franson
Holland

I think you have a half decent hockey club with those players. Unfortunately key pieces like a #1C, First Pairing Dman, another quality second line winger are still hard to come by. I just don't think they're as bad or as far off as a team as their record shows.

Carlyle has got to go.

I'd add Rielly to that list. But I don't see why Franson has to be kept. He doesn't hit and he can be pretty awful defensively at times. If you can get something decent or package him in a deal I'd definitely do it. Resigning him long term for 3.5-4 million per would be a big mistake imo.

 

[Bullfrog]

I'd add Rielly to that list. But I don't see why Franson has to be kept. He doesn't hit and he can be pretty awful defensively at times. If you can get something decent or package him in a deal I'd definitely do it. Resigning him long term for 3.5-4 million per would be a big mistake imo.

Franson leads the team in hits by a wide margin.

 

[moon111]

Randy Carlyle?s crusty personality tempered by keen sense of humour
By: Kevin McGran Sports Reporter, Published on Sat Mar 03 2012
...Leafs coach Red Kelly was noticing how his team would come down with the flu whenever they played in Philadelphia...So he took his hot-shot rookie ? Carlyle ? off the blue line and put him on the top line, with captain Darryl Sittler and sniper Lanny McDonald...

Frazer McLaren/Bozak/Kessel.  You can bet on it!

 

[Redleaf]

I'd trade Franson ahead of Gardiner. Partly because he will be looking for a long term contract after this season, but mostly because he is older and has a lower ceiling than Gardiner. His contract status may be a deterrent in getting good value back for him in trade though.

The single biggest need for this team right now is a SOLID, top pairing, stay-at-home D-man. If Franson and a prospect or pick can get it done, than Nonis should jump on it.

 

[freer]

I'd trade Franson ahead of Gardiner. Partly because he will be looking for a long term contract after this season, but mostly because he is older and has a lower ceiling than Gardiner. His contract status may be a deterrent in getting good value back for him in trade though.

The single biggest need for this team right now is a SOLID, top pairing, stay-at-home D-man. If Franson and a prospect or pick can get it done, than Nonis should jump on it.

I think you guys are crazy wanting to trade Franson, over Gardiner. Gardnier plays a good game one out of three, other then that he turns the puck over and we lose. IMO

 

[Andy007]

I'd add Rielly to that list. But I don't see why Franson has to be kept. He doesn't hit and he can be pretty awful defensively at times. If you can get something decent or package him in a deal I'd definitely do it. Resigning him long term for 3.5-4 million per would be a big mistake imo.

Franson leads the team in hits by a wide margin.

I didn't realize that. He seems to play such a soft game, particularly for someone of his size.
He reminds me alot of Aki Berg; there are games where he looks great, uses his body, makes some good offensive and defensive plays, and then there are days when he can't stop giving away the puck or letting everyone skate pass him.

 

[Rebel_1812]

I'd add Rielly to that list. But I don't see why Franson has to be kept. He doesn't hit and he can be pretty awful defensively at times. If you can get something decent or package him in a deal I'd definitely do it. Resigning him long term for 3.5-4 million per would be a big mistake imo.

Franson leads the team in hits by a wide margin.

I didn't realize that. He seems to play such a soft game, particularly for someone of his size.
He reminds me alot of Aki Berg; there are games where he looks great, uses his body, makes some good offensive and defensive plays, and then there are days when he can't stop giving away the puck or letting everyone skate passed him.

Your bringing up bad memories with Aki Berg.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

... In 30 games, their skaters have actually outplayed the other guys in just a handful of games....

I would say this is true of most of last season too. They won many games only showing up for a period or two.

I agree. It has been true for Carlyle's entire time here.

And Wilson's, And Maurice's and for that matter, just about every mediocre team in the league.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

... In 30 games, their skaters have actually outplayed the other guys in just a handful of games....

I would say this is true of most of last season too. They won many games only showing up for a period or two.

I agree. It has been true for Carlyle's entire time here.

And Wilson's, And Maurice's and for that matter, just about every mediocre team in the league.

It was never like this under either of those two coaches.  The results were obviously poor, but the team was never outplayed to this degree, this consistently (those teams had personnel issues far more than play issues - and I'm not saying they were perfect by any stretch either).

 

[OldTimeHockey]

... In 30 games, their skaters have actually outplayed the other guys in just a handful of games....

I would say this is true of most of last season too. They won many games only showing up for a period or two.

I agree. It has been true for Carlyle's entire time here.

And Wilson's, And Maurice's and for that matter, just about every mediocre team in the league.

It was never like this under either of those two coaches.  The results were obviously poor, but the team was never outplayed to this degree, this consistently (those teams had personnel issues far more than play issues - and I'm not saying they were perfect by any stretch either).

I never said by which degree they were outplayed but on most nights they only played a period or two per game and were usually the weaker team on the ice. That's my recollection of the events anyways.

I also think that it's consistant amongst 20th - 30th place teams that they have a hard time playing 60 minutes of hockey.

 

[#1PilarFan]

I've been worried for a while that Carlyle isn't going to be a good fit for this team. He doesn't have the combination of size and skill that he had in Anaheim and honestly, I think overall this team boasts better skaters than he's ever coached (as a whole) and he has not been able to capitalize on that. Furthermore, the team's neutral zone play and outlet passes are terrible and one of the main reasons the Leafs are stuck in their own zone and unable to penetrate the offensive zone. This has been going on for the entire season. It was only the Leafs' speed and goaltending that allowed them to have the kind of success they had earlier in the season.

I honestly don't know how to fix this team, other than moving the forwards closer back to their own end to make the outlet passes easier for the defense, or just relying on the Leafs' team speed to get by the neutral zone, into the offensive zone.

This may or may not be ironic, but I truly believe that Wilson would have been a far better fit with this current roster than Carlyle is, and Carlyle would've been able to get more out of Wilson's rosters and I was by no means a fan of Ron Wilson.

 

[princedpw]

... In 30 games, their skaters have actually outplayed the other guys in just a handful of games....

I would say this is true of most of last season too. They won many games only showing up for a period or two.

I agree. It has been true for Carlyle's entire time here.

And Wilson's, And Maurice's and for that matter, just about every mediocre team in the league.

It was never like this under either of those two coaches.  The results were obviously poor, but the team was never outplayed to this degree, this consistently (those teams had personnel issues far more than play issues - and I'm not saying they were perfect by any stretch either).

I agree -- this is quite specific to Carlyle.  Under Wilson, the Leafs more often held their own against the other team.  In contrast, this year it is common for the Leafs to go half a period with zero shots, or a full period with less than 5 shots.  On the other side, I simply can't recall another team so frequently giving up shots in the high 30s, 40s or even 50 recently.  This isn't normal.  The shot totals look like those that an expansion franchise would get.  And these high shot totals have occurred recently against both weak and mediocre teams.  Basically, the Leafs don't seem to be able to hold their own against anyone.  They aren't inconsistent.  They are consistently bad.

It sounds like this is an over-reaction to a losing streak, but really, outside the goaltenders, the Leafs appear to be playing like a bottom-3 team in the league.  That means that collectively the leafs are playing poorly and you have to put that on the coach.

 

[Bullfrog]

Franson leads the team in hits by a wide margin.

I didn't realize that. He seems to play such a soft game, particularly for someone of his size.
He reminds me alot of Aki Berg; there are games where he looks great, uses his body, makes some good offensive and defensive plays, and then there are days when he can't stop giving away the puck or letting everyone skate pass him.

He leads in hits, which suggests he finishes his checks. He probably doesn't lead in the bone-crunching hit column, which I couldn't find oddly enough. 

 

[Highlander]

Aki Berg is like a bad acid flashback.. what about Lumme or Cory Cross, Jackman and others..at least this corps is better unless we can clone Salming and Turnbull.

 

[bustaheims]

reporterchris: Randy Carlyle says he wants Morgan Rielly to simplify his game. "We're doing the same thing with Jake Gardiner."