Report: Shea Weber agrees to offer sheet with PHI (Dreger on twitter)

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Regardless of whether or not they can, I don't know why any team would want to be a part of that. I mean they'd give up something more valuable than 4 first round picks for the right to probably have a cheesed off Shea Weber on their team.

I missed that angle.

No. Once the offer sheet is filed, the only options are match or take compensation from the team that signed the offer sheet.

Never mind. Deep down I knew that answer.

 

[OrangeBlack]

Holmgren really wants Weber as a long term replacement for Pronger, & Weber doesn't want to stay in Nashville.  Nashville won't match & the Flyers will offer the Preds a solid trade for their draft picks back.  That way Nashville can save face, & get some value back for Weber.  It would be idiotic for Nashville to match unless they can keep Weber for life.....$27mill in year one guarantees that. 

 

[Omallley]

Holmgren really wants Weber as a long term replacement for Pronger, & Weber doesn't want to stay in Nashville.  Nashville won't match & the Flyers will offer the Preds a solid trade for their draft picks back.  That way Nashville can save face, & get some value back for Weber.  It would be idiotic for Nashville to match unless they can keep Weber for life.....$27mill in year one guarantees that.

Going to suck having 5M in dead cap space for Pronger...unless the new CBA takes care of that.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Holmgren really wants Weber as a long term replacement for Pronger, & Weber doesn't want to stay in Nashville.  Nashville won't match & the Flyers will offer the Preds a solid trade for their draft picks back.  That way Nashville can save face, & get some value back for Weber.  It would be idiotic for Nashville to match unless they can keep Weber for life.....$27mill in year one guarantees that.

Going to suck having 5M in dead cap space for Pronger...unless the new CBA takes care of that.

As long as he doesn't retire they'll be ok. They can place him on LTIR like they did Laperriere, Rathje, and Hatcher and get some help from that.

 

[Omallley]

Holmgren really wants Weber as a long term replacement for Pronger, & Weber doesn't want to stay in Nashville.  Nashville won't match & the Flyers will offer the Preds a solid trade for their draft picks back.  That way Nashville can save face, & get some value back for Weber.  It would be idiotic for Nashville to match unless they can keep Weber for life.....$27mill in year one guarantees that.

Going to suck having 5M in dead cap space for Pronger...unless the new CBA takes care of that.

As long as he doesn't retire they'll be ok. They can place him on LTIR like they did Laperriere, Rathje, and Hatcher and get some help from that.

I guess it depends on how the new CBA handles this...and how LTIR is handled if there's a season played without reaching a new one...(i.e. can there be LTIR carry over if there's no certainty of a "next year" under the current rules?).

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I guess it depends on how the new CBA handles this...and how LTIR is handled if there's a season played without reaching a new one...(i.e. can there be LTIR carry over if there's no certainty of a "next year" under the current rules?).

All 3 of those players I mentioned spent more than 1 season without playing on LTIR. So it's doable, unless like you said there's changes made.

 

[Bullfrog]

The comparison, which you seem to have misunderstood, is that it's certainly not unreasonable to expect parties to a contract (or in this case a CBA) to act with courtesy and certain principles even in an adversarial circumstance such as submitting a claim or an offer sheet to a player.

But, again, removed from the air of competition that is the fundamental basis for sport I don't see what relevance that holds. If I'm the GM of a hockey team I want to do well at the expense of every other team. If you're not in a adversarial situation, yeah, courtesy and Oxbridge pleasantries are delightful but I could name thousands of instances of duplicity or deception in the name of building sports teams. That's the rule, not the exception.

I mean, promising to run by any and all offers for RFA's by the other guy is bordering pretty close to collusion.

It's naive to think that Burke's principles are somehow unusual or extreme.

Except for the mountain of evidence to the contrary, sure.

The mountain of evidence? How many offer sheets to RFAs have there even been made in the NHL to create a mountain of evidence that his principles regarding offer sheets are extreme?

 

[OrangeBlack]

Holmgren really wants Weber as a long term replacement for Pronger, & Weber doesn't want to stay in Nashville.  Nashville won't match & the Flyers will offer the Preds a solid trade for their draft picks back.  That way Nashville can save face, & get some value back for Weber.  It would be idiotic for Nashville to match unless they can keep Weber for life.....$27mill in year one guarantees that.

Also, I don't think that Holmgren can take the chance of calling Nashville's bluff....the Flyers really need Weber desperately.  Nashville will get a few players of substance for 2 of the picks...perhaps Voracek & Mezzaros, but Couturier & B. Schenn will be off limits.

 

[sneakyray]

I hope he plays well in philly because if he doesn't he will be shipped off to the highest bidder a la richards and carter.

 

[Rebel_1812]

I guess it depends on how the new CBA handles this...and how LTIR is handled if there's a season played without reaching a new one...(i.e. can there be LTIR carry over if there's no certainty of a "next year" under the current rules?).

All 3 of those players I mentioned spent more than 1 season without playing on LTIR. So it's doable, unless like you said there's changes made.

Plus they could trade pronger or send him to the minors. 

 

[bustaheims]

Plus they could trade pronger or send him to the minors.

He's on a 35+ contract, so sending him to the minors would only save them $100K off the cap, so, even if he'd be willing to waive his NMC, it wouldn't accomplish much of worth.

 

[oldman]

I don't think Pronger ever comes off LTIR. Since he and his family have moved away from Philly and back to StLouis I would think he has but given up on returning to the ice. As long as he shows up every fall with a "headache" he will remain on LTIR.

 

[Rebel_1812]

Plus they could trade pronger or send him to the minors.

He's on a 35+ contract, so sending him to the minors would only save them $100K off the cap, so, even if he'd be willing to waive his NMC, it wouldn't accomplish much of worth.

It would save cap space, and it would give him a chance with another team.

 

[bustaheims]

It would save cap space, and it would give him a chance with another team.

Well, sure, if you consider $100K in cap space worth saving - that's all the Flyers would get from sending him to the minors (assuming he'd even be willing to waive his NMC). That's the way things work with players on 35+ contracts. Sending Pronger to the minors is not really an option, because, well, it accomplishes nothing of value unless the Flyers really really really need that roster spot and no one is willing to take Pronger off their hands.

 

[Champ Kind]

Is it just me,m or does this article make zero sense?

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/1230324--philadelphia-flyers-nashville-predators-could-be-talking-shea-weber-trade

An NHL source with knowledge of the situation said on Sunday night that Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren and his Nashville counterpart, David Poile, have talked ?just once? since restricted free-agent Shea Weber signed a 14-year, $110 million contract with Philadelphia on Wednesday.

That fuels speculation that Nashville is thinking about sending Weber, arguably the league?s best all-around defenceman, to the Flyers in a trade.

Other than that one conversation between Holmgren and Poile, ?it?s been strangely quiet,? the source said.

Crazy logic to this 'journalistic' piece.  Maybe it's Eklund that is fueling the speculation.

 

[Kin]

Is it just me,m or does this article make zero sense?

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/1230324--philadelphia-flyers-nashville-predators-could-be-talking-shea-weber-trade

An NHL source with knowledge of the situation said on Sunday night that Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren and his Nashville counterpart, David Poile, have talked ?just once? since restricted free-agent Shea Weber signed a 14-year, $110 million contract with Philadelphia on Wednesday.

That fuels speculation that Nashville is thinking about sending Weber, arguably the league?s best all-around defenceman, to the Flyers in a trade.

Other than that one conversation between Holmgren and Poile, ?it?s been strangely quiet,? the source said.

Crazy logic to this 'journalistic' piece.  Maybe it's Eklund that is fueling the speculation.

It makes some sense. The problem is saying they spoke "just once" as opposed to saying they'd spoken or something like that. The whole "They've spoken, therefore there's reason to think Nashville hasn't already decided to match" is vaguely worthwhile.

 

[dappleganger]

I heard Burke speaks "just once" to other GM's before making a trade.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I like how it says they've talked "just once," implying that once is less than you'd expect, but in the next sentence this "fuels speculation" about a trade.

 

[dappleganger]

I'm assuming the one conversation was about what a stupidly bonus laden contract they gave to Weber.

Not let's work out this complicated trade involving a player I can't trade for a year so we'll do a work around where I'll trade back some of the 1st round picks I'm going to get as compensation for what I'd really accept in a trade for Weber.

Yep.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

The comparison, which you seem to have misunderstood, is that it's certainly not unreasonable to expect parties to a contract (or in this case a CBA) to act with courtesy and certain principles even in an adversarial circumstance such as submitting a claim or an offer sheet to a player.

But, again, removed from the air of competition that is the fundamental basis for sport I don't see what relevance that holds. If I'm the GM of a hockey team I want to do well at the expense of every other team. If you're not in a adversarial situation, yeah, courtesy and Oxbridge pleasantries are delightful but I could name thousands of instances of duplicity or deception in the name of building sports teams. That's the rule, not the exception.

I mean, promising to run by any and all offers for RFA's by the other guy is bordering pretty close to collusion.

It's naive to think that Burke's principles are somehow unusual or extreme.

Except for the mountain of evidence to the contrary, sure.

Burke believes in the value of having good relationships with other teams.  He's spoken of that in discussing RFA contracts, and he's spoken of that with regards to members of his management staff joining other teams.

It's all fine and good if his or any other team wants to demolish the opposition in any game on the ice;  the games are played no matter what and there are winners and losers.  Goodwill means nothing on the ice.  Trades and negotiations, on the other hand, happen between willing partners.  Distrust and dislike can hamper trades and negotiations, and such ill will can prevent them from happening at all.  It can happen for perfectly reasonable and rational reasons, and it can happen for purely emotional or spiteful reasons.

If you wish to argue that goodwill between GMs is of little value, feel free to do so, although truly neither of us can quantify its value.  But Burke clearly feels it is of significant value, and I think it is reasonable for him to feel that way.