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Sundin update

Sundin's speech tonight was fantastic.

I cannot put into words how much I miss having him as the captain of my favourite hockey team.

 
Green Leaf said:
Justin said:
I think this video fully captures Sundin's impact on Toronto. He returns to Toronto as a Canuck and in his first game back scores the shootout winner for Vancouver - resulting in a huge eruption of cheers in the ACC. It's funny, one of the loudest points the ACC has ever been at in the last few years was cheering for a Leafs loss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVi_kwV4BAE
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You forgot the interview  ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=dt3mpNINdds&NR=1
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The video fades out before they show this, but IIRC, Mats walked towards the Leafs dressing room at the end of the interview and had to turn back the other way.
 
Some shaky cam highlights from the game...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDEZpeKS-eY

"Did that stick fall out of your hands?"

Congrats Mats, wish you were here.
 
Tigger said:
Some shaky cam highlights from the game...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDEZpeKS-eY

"Did that stick fall out of your hands?"

Congrats Mats, wish you were here.
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Some awesome tending in there...well until Bure scored from behind the net :)
 
OldTimeHockey said:
HaHa best quote of the whole highlight:

"Brian Burke is in the building, he's looking for a goalie...Will you come back?"
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Yeah, seemed like everyone was having a pretty good time. Crazy watching the names flying off the bench.
 
Mats to be inducted in the International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF) Hall of Fame along with others.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/forsberg-sundin-named-iihf-hall-190211400--nhl.html.


 
Meanwhile, the current print issue of THN has not one, but two ridiculous comparisons of Sundin's HOF-worthiness with that of Alfredsson.  Both the editor in chief, Jason Kay, and (no surprise here) resident anti-Sundin hack Ken Campbell both try to call into question Sundin's election as a tactic to make it seem like Alfredsson deserves to get in.

Memo to THN: Sundin got in on the first ballot.  THE FIRST BALLOT.  There is no controversy except among ignoramuses and/or anti-anything-Leaf crowd.  Alfredsson's stats are not even close to Sundin's, nor has he done anything noteworthy that Sundin hasn't, nor did he lead his sorryass team to a single series playoff victory over Sundin's Leafs.  Give it up, clowns.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Memo to THN: Sundin got in on the first ballot.  THE FIRST BALLOT.  There is no controversy except among ignoramuses and/or anti-anything-Leaf crowd.  Alfredsson's stats are not even close to Sundin's, nor has he done anything noteworthy that Sundin hasn't, nor did he lead his sorryass team to a single series playoff victory over Sundin's Leafs.  Give it up, clowns.
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It doesn't make me as angry as it seems to make you but you're absolutely right. It's not a good comparison for Alfredsson. Mats, in a PPG sense, outclasses Alfredsson in just about every sense.

They both had long, productive careers. Mats scored more often(1.00 PPG to .96)

They both played frequently in the playoffs. Mats scored more often(.90 PPG to .81)

Mats played in three Olympics, Alfredsson in four. Mats scored more often(1.25 PPG to 1.15)

They each played in two world cups. Mats scored more often(1.63PPG to .75)

Alfredsson played in 7 World Championships, Mats in 5. If you guessed that Mats scored more often, you're paying attention(1.26 PPG to .79)

And those are just the raw numbers. Throw in that Mats was bigger, stronger, hurt by his linemates while Alfredsson was helped by his, more of a goal scorer, chosen over Alfredsson as Captain internationally and it's really not much of a contest. Alfredsson does have the Calder, I suppose, but that was earned by virtue of scoring 61 points as a 23 year old. By the age of 23 Sundin had scored 334 points in 324 NHL games.

Alfredsson, assuming he's just about done in the NHL, definitely merits some consideration but I don't see the argument for putting him ahead of guys like Nieuwendyk or Shanahan or Fleury. He's a second tier candidate at best.
 
Nik V. Debs said:
Alfredsson, assuming he's just about done in the NHL, definitely merits some consideration but I don't see the argument for putting him ahead of guys like Nieuwendyk or Shanahan or Fleury. He's a second tier candidate at best.
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Yeah. He's sort of a modern day Glenn Anderson, except that you can make an argument that he may have been the best player on his team for a number of seasons. He probably gets in, but, only in a weaker year.
 
Nik V. Debs said:
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Memo to THN: Sundin got in on the first ballot.  THE FIRST BALLOT.  There is no controversy except among ignoramuses and/or anti-anything-Leaf crowd.  Alfredsson's stats are not even close to Sundin's, nor has he done anything noteworthy that Sundin hasn't, nor did he lead his sorryass team to a single series playoff victory over Sundin's Leafs.  Give it up, clowns.
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It doesn't make me as angry as it seems to make you ...
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What frosts me is the editorial approach of THN.  They want to run a puff piece on Alfredsson, and talk him up for the HOF.  Fine.  But leave false equivalencies out of it.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
What frosts me is the editorial approach of THN.  They want to run a puff piece on Alfredsson, and talk him up for the HOF.  Fine.  But leave false equivalencies out of it.
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Fair enough. I didn't read what you're referring to and while I understand from an editorial point of view why you might compare the two given their various parallels there's really no comparing them as players.
 
There is no doubt that Alfredsson is the best Senator ever scoringwise - he leads the all time socring, however, what makes huge difference between him and Mats is that he was not the leader of the team year by year for more than a decade as was the case with Mats. In 16 seasons since his 1995/96 rookie year he has led the team scoring just 4 times. The other years Sens scoring leader was named Spezza (3 times), Heatley (2 times), Hossa (2 times), Yashin (4 times) and Bonk (1 time). Yeah, Mats was also not always the Leafs leading scorer. Out of 13 seasons in blue and white it happend just once with Alex Mogilny. Mats was, however, second best on the team. With Alfredsson it was not always the case, though. There were seasons he was third, fourth and also fifth in scoring. Actually Spezza, Heatley, even Yashin have better PPG with the Sens than Alfredsson. He just stayed there the longest. Does that make him Hall of Famer?
 
drummond said:
There is no doubt that Alfredsson is the best Senator ever scoringwise - he leads the all time socring, however, what makes huge difference between him and Mats is that he was not the leader of the team year by year for more than a decade as was the case with Mats. In 16 seasons since his 1995/96 rookie year he has led the team scoring just 4 times. The other years Sens scoring leader was named Spezza (3 times), Heatley (2 times), Hossa (2 times), Yashin (4 times) and Bonk (1 time). Yeah, Mats was also not always the Leafs leading scorer. Out of 13 seasons in blue and white it happend just once with Alex Mogilny. Mats was, however, second best on the team. With Alfredsson it was not always the case, though. There were seasons he was third, fourth and also fifth in scoring. Actually Spezza, Heatley, even Yashin have better PPG with the Sens than Alfredsson. He just stayed there the longest. Does that make him Hall of Famer?
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I agree and, to that point, I never really thought of Alfredsson as being The Guy that the Leafs had to be worried about when playing those Sens teams. I always thought Hossa was their best player in those years.
 
Nik V. Debs said:
drummond said:
There is no doubt that Alfredsson is the best Senator ever scoringwise - he leads the all time socring, however, what makes huge difference between him and Mats is that he was not the leader of the team year by year for more than a decade as was the case with Mats. In 16 seasons since his 1995/96 rookie year he has led the team scoring just 4 times. The other years Sens scoring leader was named Spezza (3 times), Heatley (2 times), Hossa (2 times), Yashin (4 times) and Bonk (1 time). Yeah, Mats was also not always the Leafs leading scorer. Out of 13 seasons in blue and white it happend just once with Alex Mogilny. Mats was, however, second best on the team. With Alfredsson it was not always the case, though. There were seasons he was third, fourth and also fifth in scoring. Actually Spezza, Heatley, even Yashin have better PPG with the Sens than Alfredsson. He just stayed there the longest. Does that make him Hall of Famer?
Click to expand...

I agree and, to that point, I never really thought of Alfredsson as being The Guy that the Leafs had to be worried about when playing those Sens teams. I always thought Hossa was their best player in those years.
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Or Danny Heatley, he scored most points against the Leafs in those years he was a Senator.
 
drummond said:
Or Danny Heatley, he scored most points against the Leafs in those years he was a Senator.
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I was more talking about the Sens teams that the Leafs played in the playoffs but yeah, in the later years that line as a whole worried me more than any one individual part.
 
Alfredsson was the better defensive player though; he did get 3rd in Selke voting one year. I think he's a future candidate that'll get strong consideration; but there's many players in that category.
 
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