Tank Nation UNITE!!!

[GhostofPotvin29]

Watching some highlights, and maybe LK can chime in, Marner really gives off a 'Claude Giroux' vibe.

You mean great player on a defensively terrible team?

Joking of course. That sounds good. I'm not going going to get too excited about picks until our draft position is a little more defined.

A loss tonight would go a big way to helping that.

Just looks similar to me, both RH, similar size, both put up huge offensive stats in their draft seasons etc.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ7nUCU3XZI[/youtube]

 

[bustaheims]

Watching some highlights, and maybe LK can chime in, Marner really gives off a 'Claude Giroux' vibe.

So, what you're saying is, whichever GM gets to draft him is going to forget his name at the podium?

 

[ZBBM]

Yeah, I have to admit this place isn't nearly as fun these past few years as it once was.  Everyone's in a bad mood all the time because any one of us could have done at least as good a job running the team as the bozos who actually get paid to.

No kidding hey?  Even when they were rolling last month...you could tell everyone was not buying it...no crazy blue and white koolaid like years past.  I remember after every win in previous years, everyone would talk about how the team was on the verge of contending.  This year even after they won like 6 in a row everone was waiting for the other shoe To drop.....and it inevetibly did.  The fanbase it completely jaded (with good reason)

We're a sadder but wiser fanbase.

 

[Arn]

Well I'm on board the Mitch Marner March to the bottom 5.

Also, would be nice to see a 93 in a Leafs shirt again...

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Also, would be nice to see a 93 in a Leafs shirt again...

Here you go:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aYLAei1rFI[/youtube]

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Also, would be nice to see a 93 in a Leafs shirt again...

Here you go:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aYLAei1rFI[/youtube]

  We definitely need a new 93!

 

[Leaflifer]

I've no respect for this edition, but I'll still be a Leaf fan long after all these guys are moved on, for better or worse.

An elite player out of this draft would make a huge difference.

 

[mc]

Hoping for Philadelphia, Columbus and Ottawa to pull off wins tonight.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Hoping for Philadelphia, Columbus, Ottawa and Arizona to pull off wins tonight.

Fixed!  8)

 

[slapshot]

I hope the win 13 of 15 just to shut people up.

You know they just might (I haven't looked at the schedule so that might be a ridiculous statement).

Lupul, Holland and Komarov brings much needed depth, and a legit offensive threat in Lupul.

If the D stays as posted there's a defensive D man and offensive D man on every pairing. Franson-Gardiner on the top PP will probably produce more than Dion.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see how much this team misses/doesn't miss Dion's presence. I suspect it'll be less than some make it out to be but the proof will be before our eyes in short order.

It's perfect timing, because either they miss him a lot, go into a tail-spin and end up with a great pick, or they don't miss him much and can consider moving him.

I don't see why the stretch of him injured would make a difference either way.  Did Leafs teams winning a playoff series with Mats Sundin out of the lineup mean they could consider moving him?  Teams shouldn't be basing big decisions like that on smaller stretches with or without a player.

I am sure they are not. They probably already made up their mind to dump him somehow. This should just show that it won't be a huge loss.

 

[Highlander]

this Marner looks real good. if he works out he can be "Grand Marner"  just missing one i

 

[CarltonTheBear]

this Marner looks real good. if he works out he can be "Grand Marner"  just missing one i

Great I actually don't want to draft Marner anymore.

 

[slapshot]

I don't share the view that tanking is the answer and history doesn't show any guarantees. While some teams with top picks, Chicago, Pittsburgh have won Stanley Cups with because of high picks, others teams that have accumulated them -- Edmonton, Washington, Ottawa previously -- haven't been able to parlay them in Stanley Cups.

That's like saying that going to college doesn't matter because you can go to college, get your degree and still end up unemployed.

Nobody has ever said that tanking guarantees anything or that it will achieve good results independent of having a good management team in place making good decisions. Just that it's the best and most direct way to accumulate the sort of talent you need to build a winner. Your plan for the Leafs boils down to basically that they don't need to rebuild because they can just "find" a #1 centre and top defensemen like those are things that other teams are eager to give away.

"Just do things better" isn't actually a strategy.

Other teams, such as, LA, St.Louis, Anaheim, have had maybe one top five pick and a host of late first and even later picks that form their core.
On Anaheim, Getzlaf was 19th, Perry 28th, Kesler, 23rd, Fowler, 12th.
St.Louis, apart from Pietangelo at 4th, Tarasenko 16th, Oshie and Steen both 16th, Stastny 44, and Backus 62.

Of the ten players you name here, four were drafted in 2003 which is hands down the best draft year in the history of the NHL. Using picks from those years as "evidence" that Franchise players can be found up and down the draft is essentially advocating for the Leafs to sit around and hope that lightning strikes.

Players picked in the top 5 of a draft are not the equal of each other simply by virtue of draft position. Rielly was taken 5th in what looks to be an incredibly weak draft year. The Kings have Drew Doughty, taken second in an incredibly strong draft year. Are they a wash? Is the Leafs hoping to build around JVR a wash with the Islanders building around Tavares because they were both top 5 picks?

For years people said that the Leafs should build their team the way that the Red Wings did in the 90's but  Communism was never going to fall a second time. At some point you actually have to try to deal with how talent is actually distributed in a repeatable way.

Your college comparison. Your joking right, seriously...

You could go through any roster of top teams and find that most of the "core" is outside of the top 5 picks. The problem with the Leafs is that their top core, doesn't have real leaders. Doesn't mean their not attainable, draft or otherwise.

And, tanking actually can harm your team as much as help them by instilling a losing attitude on the rest of them group. Or making it even more impossible to attract quality players.

I never said you are just going to "find" a top centre and d-man, but that doesn't mean you don't try to make deals or draft to get there eventually. But I guess Dallas wouldn't know anything about finding Tyler Sequin.

Thanks for point out that just getting better isn't a strategy. It wasn't meant to be, more of just pointing out the obvious. But I guess it wasn't obvious enough.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

this Marner looks real good. if he works out he can be "Grand Marner"  just missing one i

Great I actually don't want to draft Marner anymore.

It's like someone just told you there are worms in that hot cocoa you were about to enjoy. 

Given the state of the team, a 'Rime of the Ancient Marner' theme would be more fun to run with.  And since Highlander says he's missing an i, we could fold in some sort of pirate motif.

 

[L K]

this Marner looks real good. if he works out he can be "Grand Marner"  just missing one i

Great I actually don't want to draft Marner anymore.

He's injured and damaged goods now anyway.  Will Petschenig crosschecked him from behind into the boards and depending on who you talk to may have given him a minor compression fracture.  Petschenig got an 8 game suspension for the hit.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

He's injured and damaged goods now anyway.  Will Petschenig crosschecked him from behind into the boards and depending on who you talk to may have given him a minor compression fracture.  Petschenig got an 8 game suspension for the hit.

Yeah I heard about that but hadn't heard the severity. Season ending?

 

[Madferret]

Marner = huge bust

 

[L K]

He's injured and damaged goods now anyway.  Will Petschenig crosschecked him from behind into the boards and depending on who you talk to may have given him a minor compression fracture.  Petschenig got an 8 game suspension for the hit.

Yeah I heard about that but hadn't heard the severity. Season ending?

I don't think so.  It's a small fracture if it's true but I think he's definitely out this week and likely next week for sure.  On the whole it's likely not something that necessarily carries forward but I'm always wary of back injuries.  They have a way of lingering.


It's horrible quality but this was the hit.  You can't really tell with the video quality but Domi shoots the puck and the goalie makes a glove save.  Marner never touches the puck inside the blueline.  The crosscheck/shove isn't directly in the numbers but it's from behind and into the side a few feet out from the boards and Marner goes full speed face first into the boards.  A dirty classless play.
http://vine.co/u/1171331767639166976

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Marner = huge bust

Did you guys already draft him or something?

 

[Kin]

You could go through any roster of top teams and find that most of the "core" is outside of the top 5 picks. The problem with the Leafs is that their top core, doesn't have real leaders. Doesn't mean their not attainable, draft or otherwise.

And, tanking actually can harm your team as much as help them by instilling a losing attitude on the rest of them group. Or making it even more impossible to attract quality players.

I never said you are just going to "find" a top centre and d-man, but that doesn't mean you don't try to make deals or draft to get there eventually. But I guess Dallas wouldn't know anything about finding Tyler Sequin.

The Maple Leafs have been trying to land a #1 center via trade for almost ten years. Thinking they need one, that's not some grand revelation. Burke knew that. Nonis knows that. The reason they haven't been able to do it yet is because those are players that are almost never available via trade and, when they are, they go for assets the Leafs also don't have.

The fact that you use Tyler Seguin, the #1 centre the Leafs could have had if they'd committed to tanking instead of forgoing the draft to try to trade for a franchise player, as your example is pretty hilariously ironic but even so, ok. So Tyler Seguin was in a pretty unique position. He was on a team chock full of talent, in fact so talented that they could theoretically consider trading their great young center because of what they perceived as his maturity issues and because they already had two guys in Bergeron and Krejci who could be considered #1 centers.

So then, to get Seguin, all Dallas had to do is trade the 27 year old they had who had multiple 70 point seasons. Do the Leafs have a spare one of those I've forgotten about? Are they bringing one up any time soon? The Bruins were willing to trade someone who could have been a cornerstone for the future for someone in the present. The Leafs don't have either of those things. Your position is the strategic equivalent of someone saying "If we had some ham we could make ham and eggs if we also had some eggs".

By advocating for waiting for one of those trades to fall into the Leafs lap you're arguing that they should leave the process up to far more chance than the draft could ever be. No GM, no matter how smart, can control who becomes available for trade and, when they do, they can't control who else wants to trade for that player or what they're offering or what the team with that player is looking to trade. Want to try and draft a #1 Centre at #19 in the draft? You can't control what the other 18 teams do in front of you and they're all furiously trying to draft as well as they can too.

We've seen the results of trying to trade and draft low your way to contention. It's the big pile of garbage they have masquerading as a hockey team now. The best way to try and add talent, elite talent, is drafting at the top. That's just a fact.