Unofficial 2012/2013 Armchair GM

[Jalili]

Hindsight is 20/20 isn't an excuse that I think is appropriate in this case. That's usually reserved for decisions that are affected by the completely unforeseen happening (ie: a player dying or something).

In this case it was just a really bad move made by a GM with his hands tied while trying to save his job.

 

[caver]

Any sense in a Komisarek for Dustin Penner trade ?

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Heard a little interesting tidbit from the radio yesterday.

Shawn Simpson is now on the Team1200 all the time.  He was a former Maple Leafs scout during the JFJ years.  He is extremely candid and throws out some random Leaf nuggets from his tenure there.

Anyways, he jokes about why he's on the radio now.  Said he was a big proponent of the Rask for Raycroft deal.  Well yesterday they were discussing how good and surprising the NJ Devils are this year and once again he threw out an interesting piece.  And I'm paraphrashing here, 'Clarkson is another reason why I'm on radio now.... when I was part of the Leafs organization and we traded Ken Klee to NJ, the Leafs got to pick from Suglobov or Clarkson and I chose Suglobov.'

Dang.  Nothing earth shattering but thought it was worth sharing.

Kenny Klee, Kenny Klee.
Kenny Klee, yeah, Kenny Klee-ee.
We should have got Dave Clarkson...
Kenny Klee-eeee!

 

[gilmourthegreat]

Heard a little interesting tidbit from the radio yesterday.

Shawn Simpson is now on the Team1200 all the time.  He was a former Maple Leafs scout during the JFJ years.  He is extremely candid and throws out some random Leaf nuggets from his tenure there.

Anyways, he jokes about why he's on the radio now.  Said he was a big proponent of the Rask for Raycroft deal.  Well yesterday they were discussing how good and surprising the NJ Devils are this year and once again he threw out an interesting piece.  And I'm paraphrashing here, 'Clarkson is another reason why I'm on radio now.... when I was part of the Leafs organization and we traded Ken Klee to NJ, the Leafs got to pick from Suglobov or Clarkson and I chose Suglobov.'

Dang.  Nothing earth shattering but thought it was worth sharing.

Kenny Klee, Kenny Klee.
Kenny Klee, yeah, Kenny Klee-ee.
We should have got Dave Clarkson...
Kenny Klee-eeee!

When I find myself in times of pleasure, Mr. Simpson comes to me...

 

[bustaheims]

I can forgive Suglobov over Clarkson, but, not being a big proponent of the Rask/Raycroft trade.

 

[Deebo]

I can forgive Suglobov over Clarkson

What if we call it the Suglobov for Clarkson trade?

 

[bustaheims]

I can forgive Suglobov over Clarkson

What if we call it the Suglobov for Clarkson trade?

Why must you turn this forum into a house of lies?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

We traded Clarkson for Suglobov? Unreal.

 

[Justin]

Clarkson would be my favourite player if he were on the Leafs right now. Good Christ.

 

[Zee]

Hindsight is 20/20 isn't an excuse that I think is appropriate in this case. That's usually reserved for decisions that are affected by the completely unforeseen happening (ie: a player dying or something).

In this case it was just a really bad move made by a GM with his hands tied while trying to save his job.

At the time people believed Pogge would turn into a stud goalie. He was named CHL goalie of the year in 2006 and won gold with the world juniors. They made a choice of Pogge over Rask as the future and it blew up in their faces because Pogge didn't develop.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Heard a little interesting tidbit from the radio yesterday.

Shawn Simpson is now on the Team1200 all the time.  He was a former Maple Leafs scout during the JFJ years.  He is extremely candid and throws out some random Leaf nuggets from his tenure there.

Anyways, he jokes about why he's on the radio now.  Said he was a big proponent of the Rask for Raycroft deal.  Well yesterday they were discussing how good and surprising the NJ Devils are this year and once again he threw out an interesting piece.  And I'm paraphrashing here, 'Clarkson is another reason why I'm on radio now.... when I was part of the Leafs organization and we traded Ken Klee to NJ, the Leafs got to pick from Suglobov or Clarkson and I chose Suglobov.'

Dang.  Nothing earth shattering but thought it was worth sharing.

Kenny Klee, Kenny Klee.
Kenny Klee, yeah, Kenny Klee-ee.
We should have got Dave Clarkson...
Kenny Klee-eeee!

When I find myself in times of pleasure, Mr. Simpson comes to me...

"I can ruin your pleasure"
Kenny Klee

 

[gilmourthegreat]

Heard a little interesting tidbit from the radio yesterday.

Shawn Simpson is now on the Team1200 all the time.  He was a former Maple Leafs scout during the JFJ years.  He is extremely candid and throws out some random Leaf nuggets from his tenure there.

Anyways, he jokes about why he's on the radio now.  Said he was a big proponent of the Rask for Raycroft deal.  Well yesterday they were discussing how good and surprising the NJ Devils are this year and once again he threw out an interesting piece.  And I'm paraphrashing here, 'Clarkson is another reason why I'm on radio now.... when I was part of the Leafs organization and we traded Ken Klee to NJ, the Leafs got to pick from Suglobov or Clarkson and I chose Suglobov.'

Dang.  Nothing earth shattering but thought it was worth sharing.

Kenny Klee, Kenny Klee.
Kenny Klee, yeah, Kenny Klee-ee.
We should have got Dave Clarkson...
Kenny Klee-eeee!

When I find myself in times of pleasure, Mr. Simpson comes to me...

"I can ruin your pleasure"
Kenny Klee

OHHH DAVID CLARKSON!!!!

 

[Highlander]

What an idiot

 

[Courtnall]

Hindsight is 20/20 isn't an excuse that I think is appropriate in this case. That's usually reserved for decisions that are affected by the completely unforeseen happening (ie: a player dying or something).

In this case it was just a really bad move made by a GM with his hands tied while trying to save his job.

At the time people believed Pogge would turn into a stud goalie. He was named CHL goalie of the year in 2006 and won gold with the world juniors. They made a choice of Pogge over Rask as the future and it blew up in their faces because Pogge didn't develop.

A choice that didn't need making.

 

[Kin]

Hindsight is 20/20 isn't an excuse that I think is appropriate in this case. That's usually reserved for decisions that are affected by the completely unforeseen happening (ie: a player dying or something).

In this case it was just a really bad move made by a GM with his hands tied while trying to save his job.

At the time people believed Pogge would turn into a stud goalie. He was named CHL goalie of the year in 2006 and won gold with the world juniors. They made a choice of Pogge over Rask as the future and it blew up in their faces because Pogge didn't develop.

A choice that didn't need making.

Which is really the best point to be made. Regardless of which prospect turned out better it was ridiculous to trade eithe one for Raycroft.

 

[Zee]

Hindsight is 20/20 isn't an excuse that I think is appropriate in this case. That's usually reserved for decisions that are affected by the completely unforeseen happening (ie: a player dying or something).

In this case it was just a really bad move made by a GM with his hands tied while trying to save his job.

At the time people believed Pogge would turn into a stud goalie. He was named CHL goalie of the year in 2006 and won gold with the world juniors. They made a choice of Pogge over Rask as the future and it blew up in their faces because Pogge didn't develop.

A choice that didn't need making.

Which is really the best point to be made. Regardless of which prospect turned out better it was ridiculous to trade eithe one for Raycroft.

Everyone is a genius after the fact.  Raycroft was 26, won rookie of the year and was coming off the famous "sophmore slump" year that many players seem to have. There was thought that he could bounce back to being a great goaltender and a starter for many years.  Leafs were rolling with Tellqvist/Aubin and neither one of those was a starter. The deal looks horrible now, but at the time nobody knew what Rask was.  He wasn't even playing in North America at the time, he was an elite European league goalie.  Sometimes the goalies that are great in Europe have a difficult time adjusting to the North American game, and some never do well enough to become bona fide #1 starters.  It was a gamble on the Leafs and Bruins part, and it worked sky high for the Bruins.

 

[bustaheims]

Everyone is a genius after the fact.  Raycroft was 26, won rookie of the year and was coming off the famous "sophmore slump" year that many players seem to have. There was thought that he could bounce back to being a great goaltender and a starter for many years.  Leafs were rolling with Tellqvist/Aubin and neither one of those was a starter. The deal looks horrible now, but at the time nobody knew what Rask was.  He wasn't even playing in North America at the time, he was an elite European league goalie.  Sometimes the goalies that are great in Europe have a difficult time adjusting to the North American game, and some never do well enough to become bona fide #1 starters.  It was a gamble on the Leafs and Bruins part, and it worked sky high for the Bruins.

At the time, pretty much everyone saw it as a bad and unnecessary trade. It's hardly revisionist history or hindsight. There were perfectly good options available as UFAs that would have done the same job as Raycroft and allowed the Leafs to retain both of their top goaltending prospects.

 

[Kin]

Everyone is a genius after the fact.

No. Dopes are still dopes before and after. The server crash makes it sadly unverifiable but I can state with 100% accuracy that the Raycroft trade looked ridiculous and was called so by lots of people on this site, including me, at the very minute it was made.

  Raycroft was 26, won rookie of the year and was coming off the famous "sophmore slump" year that many players seem to have.

He'd also had his one, one, good year before the lockout and when the trade was made we had ample evidence that lots of goalies who were effective pre-lockout were not so much post-lockout.

Leafs were rolling with Tellqvist/Aubin and neither one of those was a starter.

There were other avenues to obtain a starter besides Raycroft, someone with no track record of consistent success and who'd shown no ability to play well post-rule changes.

The deal looks horrible now, but at the time nobody knew what Rask was.  He wasn't even playing in North America at the time, he was an elite European league goalie.

And widely regarded as one of the best goaltending prospects in the game.

Sometimes the goalies that are great in Europe have a difficult time adjusting to the North American game, and some never do well enough to become bona fide #1 starters.

I'm sorry but that's just complete nonsense. No prospect class, not Canadian forwards or American defensemen have a 100% success rate. Saying that "some" European goalies don't realize their potential and that somehow devalues their worth as a group is like saying that Alexandre Daigle's failings make Nathan Mackinnon not much of a prospect. A very high percentage of the best goalies in the league are Europeans and where Rask is from in no way negatively impacted his value as a prospect.

It was a gamble on the Leafs and Bruins part, and it worked sky high for the Bruins.

That's just it. It wasn't a gamble by the Bruins. They traded the goalie who was #3 on their depth chart for one of the better goaltending prospects in the world.

 

[Andy007]

Everyone is a genius after the fact.  Raycroft was 26, won rookie of the year and was coming off the famous "sophmore slump" year that many players seem to have. There was thought that he could bounce back to being a great goaltender and a starter for many years.  Leafs were rolling with Tellqvist/Aubin and neither one of those was a starter. The deal looks horrible now, but at the time nobody knew what Rask was.  He wasn't even playing in North America at the time, he was an elite European league goalie.  Sometimes the goalies that are great in Europe have a difficult time adjusting to the North American game, and some never do well enough to become bona fide #1 starters.  It was a gamble on the Leafs and Bruins part, and it worked sky high for the Bruins.

At the time, pretty much everyone saw it as a bad and unnecessary trade. It's hardly revisionist history or hindsight. There were perfectly good options available as UFAs that would have done the same job as Raycroft and allowed the Leafs to retain both of their top goaltending prospects.

I do remember that Pierre MacGuire was over the moon about the deal for the Leafs so that isn't exactly true.

Raycroft had a .926 SP two years before the trade and was injured the following year; Leafs had 2 top goalie prospects so it wasn't exactly a head scratcher. I think the perception has changed a bit, considering Pogge's subsequent futility and Rask's success but I can't remember much of the perception surrounding the deal (apart from MacGuire's positive assessment).

 

[Kin]

The equivalent of making the Raycroft trade today would be like the Leafs trading Morgan Rielly for Ryan Whitney.