Unofficial 2012/2013 Armchair GM

[Kin]

While this may be true, who do you replace him with, and at what cost?

Well, if you figure that you still have JVR, Lupul, Frattin and Mac? You don't necessarily have an overpowering need to add another top 6 winger right away.

 

[Champ Kind]

I've got to be honest: I really hope the Perry contract isn't a harbinger for a Kessel deal in Toronto .

I think it will be, one way or the other. That's not to say that Kessel will get the same money Perry got, one year aberration or not being able to point to a Hart trophy is going to break some eggs come contract time, but it is going to be a part of the salary structure that Kessel is going to be working within.

I think one of the things we're going to see going forward is that because it's so uncommon for big time talent to hit free agency that when that's looming for a player like Kessel he'll be able to, in his negotiations with the Leafs, point to all of the teams that have cap space for next summer and the relative lack of options  for them to spend it.

So 8.6 million? No. But I definitely don't think he'll sign long term for 6.5 or something like that.

I would tend to agree with you assessment.  Which is why this trade deadline might be the exact time the Leafs maximize Kessel's value.  Again, I just don't see a 8 year, $60M committment to Phil Kessel as being something this team should entertain.

While this may be true, who do you replace him with, and at what cost?

I think the $7.5 that would be allocated to Kessel could go towards, say a Ryane Clowe / David Clarkson / Chris Stewart - type who could score a few and provide a more well-rounded game.  The extra $2.5 - $3M could go toward either topping up the salary to find a first-line centre (assuming one of Boazak / Grabovski don't return) or in finding a tough, stay-at-home defenseman to play a Top-4 shutdown roll.

 

[Kin]

I think the $7.5 that would be allocated to Kessel could go towards, say a Ryane Clowe / David Clarkson / Chris Stewart - type who could score a few and provide a more well-rounded game.  The extra $2.5 - $3M could go toward either topping up the salary to find a first-line centre (assuming one of Boazak / Grabovski don't return) or in finding a tough, stay-at-home defenseman to play a Top-4 shutdown roll.

Not to mention whatever the team were to get in return for Kessel. If he does get dealt you'd have to assume there'd be at least one piece in return that fit right into the roster. No way he'd go for just picks and prospects.

 

[maplesyrup]

Would our a group of centres looking like;

Kadri
Grabo
McClement
Colborne

be significantly worse than;

Bozak
Kadri
Grabo
McClement

???

If not, maybe we can flip Bozak for a useful defenceman?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think we'd be better off swapping McClement and Colborne there. Basically Colborne would be in the same role as Kadri is now. There's no point in having Colborne on the team if he's going to be getting 7 minutes a night with Orr and McLaren.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I've got to be honest: I really hope the Perry contract isn't a harbinger for a Kessel deal in Toronto .

I think it will be, one way or the other. That's not to say that Kessel will get the same money Perry got, one year aberration or not being able to point to a Hart trophy is going to break some eggs come contract time, but it is going to be a part of the salary structure that Kessel is going to be working within.

I think one of the things we're going to see going forward is that because it's so uncommon for big time talent to hit free agency that when that's looming for a player like Kessel he'll be able to, in his negotiations with the Leafs, point to all of the teams that have cap space for next summer and the relative lack of options  for them to spend it.

So 8.6 million? No. But I definitely don't think he'll sign long term for 6.5 or something like that.

I would tend to agree with you assessment.  Which is why this trade deadline might be the exact time the Leafs maximize Kessel's value.  Again, I just don't see a 8 year, $60M committment to Phil Kessel as being something this team should entertain.

While this may be true, who do you replace him with, and at what cost?

I think the $7.5 that would be allocated to Kessel could go towards, say a Ryane Clowe / David Clarkson / Chris Stewart - type who could score a few and provide a more well-rounded game.  The extra $2.5 - $3M could go toward either topping up the salary to find a first-line centre (assuming one of Boazak / Grabovski don't return) or in finding a tough, stay-at-home defenseman to play a Top-4 shutdown roll.

Please not a Ryane Clowe type.  He's got 9 assists and no goals in 25 games, after a 17 point drop-off last season.

 

[maplesyrup]

I think we'd be better off swapping McClement and Colborne there. Basically Colborne would be in the same role as Kadri is now. There's no point in having Colborne on the team if he's going to be getting 7 minutes a night with Orr and McLaren.

That's how I had it originally. Either way, is that group much worse than the one that includes Bozak?

 

[Kin]

That's how I had it originally. Either way, is that group much worse than the one that includes Bozak?

Sort of depends on Colborne's ability to step right in and play important minutes, doesn't it?

I mean, say what you will about Bozak he's taking a ton of the team's faceoffs, winning them at a good clip, and killing penalties. That stuff has to be replaced by someone.

 

[Champ Kind]

I've got to be honest: I really hope the Perry contract isn't a harbinger for a Kessel deal in Toronto .

I think it will be, one way or the other. That's not to say that Kessel will get the same money Perry got, one year aberration or not being able to point to a Hart trophy is going to break some eggs come contract time, but it is going to be a part of the salary structure that Kessel is going to be working within.

I think one of the things we're going to see going forward is that because it's so uncommon for big time talent to hit free agency that when that's looming for a player like Kessel he'll be able to, in his negotiations with the Leafs, point to all of the teams that have cap space for next summer and the relative lack of options  for them to spend it.

So 8.6 million? No. But I definitely don't think he'll sign long term for 6.5 or something like that.

I would tend to agree with you assessment.  Which is why this trade deadline might be the exact time the Leafs maximize Kessel's value.  Again, I just don't see a 8 year, $60M committment to Phil Kessel as being something this team should entertain.

While this may be true, who do you replace him with, and at what cost?

I think the $7.5 that would be allocated to Kessel could go towards, say a Ryane Clowe / David Clarkson / Chris Stewart - type who could score a few and provide a more well-rounded game.  The extra $2.5 - $3M could go toward either topping up the salary to find a first-line centre (assuming one of Boazak / Grabovski don't return) or in finding a tough, stay-at-home defenseman to play a Top-4 shutdown roll.

Please not a Ryane Clowe type.  He's got 9 assists and no goals in 25 games, after a 17 point drop-off last season.

Well, to be fair I didn't say Ryane Clowe, I said Ryane Clowe-type, and to that I would say 15-20 goals, tough, and serve as a leader.  Maybe I should have said "Gary Roberts-esque"?

I'd also add that depending on what Clowe is looking for, I'd sign him in a heartbeat to a reasonable deal, 0 goals and all.

I think I look at it this way: Clarkson is not "really" a 30 goal scorer, but by gosh he scored them last year.  Schris Stewart "won't" lead your team in goals, but somehow he's doing it.  And I really don't think Ryane Clowe has completely lost the ability to be productive.  These tough-guys with some skill often have strange statistical seasons.  When you go to the net hard, cause havoc, and have a decent set of hands, you'll score some goals provided you're getting the bounces (I mean, Chris Neil scored, what, 12 or so goals a few years ago).  Now, I haven't watched enough of Ryane Clowe to know where his game is, and I know Potvin will have statistics to back up his assertion, but it just might be that he's having an off-year (and a half).

 

[Champ Kind]

I think the $7.5 that would be allocated to Kessel could go towards, say a Ryane Clowe / David Clarkson / Chris Stewart - type who could score a few and provide a more well-rounded game.  The extra $2.5 - $3M could go toward either topping up the salary to find a first-line centre (assuming one of Boazak / Grabovski don't return) or in finding a tough, stay-at-home defenseman to play a Top-4 shutdown roll.

Not to mention whatever the team were to get in return for Kessel. If he does get dealt you'd have to assume there'd be at least one piece in return that fit right into the roster. No way he'd go for just picks and prospects.

One would assume.  But, say, the Leafs were offered 2 firsts and a second for him, with these picks projected to be middle round.  I think I'd have a hard time saying no, especially since those picks would likely be incredibly valuable as draft day approaches.

I guess I'm also saying that - maybe - the Leafs wouldn't miss Kessel all that much.  His 1'st line PP minutes would easily get eaten up by Lupul, and it's likely that if Frattin returns to pre-injury form the second line scoring winger position is well spoken for.

 

[Kin]

One would assume.  But, say, the Leafs were offered 2 firsts and a second for him, with these picks projected to be middle round. I think I'd have a hard time saying no, especially since those picks would likely be incredibly valuable as draft day approaches.

I don't know, I think getting that particular return for Kessel might just make steam shoot out of my ears.

 

[Champ Kind]

One would assume.  But, say, the Leafs were offered 2 firsts and a second for him, with these picks projected to be middle round. I think I'd have a hard time saying no, especially since those picks would likely be incredibly valuable as draft day approaches.

I don't know, I think getting that particular return for Kessel might just make steam shoot out of my ears.

In that case, make it happen, Nonis.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I've got to be honest: I really hope the Perry contract isn't a harbinger for a Kessel deal in Toronto .

I think it will be, one way or the other. That's not to say that Kessel will get the same money Perry got, one year aberration or not being able to point to a Hart trophy is going to break some eggs come contract time, but it is going to be a part of the salary structure that Kessel is going to be working within.

I think one of the things we're going to see going forward is that because it's so uncommon for big time talent to hit free agency that when that's looming for a player like Kessel he'll be able to, in his negotiations with the Leafs, point to all of the teams that have cap space for next summer and the relative lack of options  for them to spend it.

So 8.6 million? No. But I definitely don't think he'll sign long term for 6.5 or something like that.

I would tend to agree with you assessment.  Which is why this trade deadline might be the exact time the Leafs maximize Kessel's value.  Again, I just don't see a 8 year, $60M committment to Phil Kessel as being something this team should entertain.

While this may be true, who do you replace him with, and at what cost?

I think the $7.5 that would be allocated to Kessel could go towards, say a Ryane Clowe / David Clarkson / Chris Stewart - type who could score a few and provide a more well-rounded game.  The extra $2.5 - $3M could go toward either topping up the salary to find a first-line centre (assuming one of Boazak / Grabovski don't return) or in finding a tough, stay-at-home defenseman to play a Top-4 shutdown roll.

Please not a Ryane Clowe type.  He's got 9 assists and no goals in 25 games, after a 17 point drop-off last season.

Well, to be fair I didn't say Ryane Clowe, I said Ryane Clowe-type

To be "that guy," so did I. 

I think I look at it this way: Clarkson is not "really" a 30 goal scorer, but by gosh he scored them last year.

He's on an 82 game pace for 30 this season.

 

[Redleaf]

Rumour on HC at noon was Kiprusoff to Leafs for 1st rounder.

I'm not buying it, but I'm pretty sure the Leafs are still in the hunt for a veteran goaltender.

Pretty steep if its a 1st rounder. He's 36 yrs old.

 

[Zee]

Rumour on HC at noon was Kiprusoff to Leafs for 1st rounder.

I'm not buying it, but I'm pretty sure the Leafs are still in the hunt for a veteran goaltender.

Pretty steep if its a 1st rounder. He's 36 yrs old.

After all the talk from Nonis about not moving young players for older players I can't see him making a trade like that...especially not a first rounder.  In the era of the Kessel backfired trade how can Nonis deal a first round pick while the Leafs are in a slide?

Good Lord, so I just watched the video from hockey central.  McLean and Kypreos speculating on Kirprusoff to Toronto and said it would take "a goalie, a first round pick and maybe a prospect" -- for a 36 year old guy on the decline?  Are they smoking something?

 

[bustaheims]

Rumour on HC at noon was Kiprusoff to Leafs for 1st rounder.

I'm not buying it, but I'm pretty sure the Leafs are still in the hunt for a veteran goaltender.

Pretty steep if its a 1st rounder. He's 36 yrs old.

I wouldn't exactly call what was said a rumour. More like completely baseless speculation by a couple of guys who have shown over and over again they have no idea when it comes to player values in trades or in free agency.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Those two are really horrendous when it comes to predicting trades and specifically the price it would take to get certain players.

It's absolutely horrifying to think Doug MacClean was a GM in the NHL.

Kessel+++ for an unsigned rental Corey Perry was another classic.

 

[nutman]

Rumour on HC at noon was Kiprusoff to Leafs for 1st rounder.

I'm not buying it, but I'm pretty sure the Leafs are still in the hunt for a veteran goaltender.

Pretty steep if its a 1st rounder. He's 36 yrs old.

After all the talk from Nonis about not moving young players for older players I can't see him making a trade like that...especially not a first rounder.  In the era of the Kessel backfired trade how can Nonis deal a first round pick while the Leafs are in a slide?

Good Lord, so I just watched the video from hockey central.  McLean and Kypreos speculating on Kirprusoff to Toronto and said it would take "a goalie, a first round pick and maybe a prospect" -- for a 36 year old guy on the decline?  Are they smoking something?

what ever there smoking I'll take some. how do they keep there jobs ????

 

[bustaheims]

Kessel+++ for an unsigned rental Corey Perry was another classic.

My favourite part of that is that McLean suggested that it would only be something that would happen after the season. So, not even for an unsigned rental, but, for his free agent rights. Just beyond absurd.

 

[Zee]

Rumour on HC at noon was Kiprusoff to Leafs for 1st rounder.

I'm not buying it, but I'm pretty sure the Leafs are still in the hunt for a veteran goaltender.

Pretty steep if its a 1st rounder. He's 36 yrs old.

I wouldn't exactly call what was said a rumour. More like completely baseless speculation by a couple of guys who have shown over and over again they have no idea when it comes to player values in trades or in free agency.

Well they both said "they heard" Kiprusoff was available and the likely destination is Toronto.  Maybe Feaster thinks he can get a first round pick for him, I wouldn't put that past him, but there's no way Nonis does that.