We need Cory Schneider

[maplesyrup]

I'm obviously with Bullfrog on this. Dependable goaltending on a consistent basis just has such great trickle-down effect on the whole team. 

 

[Corn Flake]

Gardiner + our 1st for Schneider + Van's 1st is probably a touch too steep, but I don't think it's that far off, especially if our 1st is 10th overall.

When you balance out the ELC versus RFA status and add the 1st exchange, that's way too steep for me.

Don't get me wrong, Schneider seems like a good young goalie and would address a real problem but that seems like burning up too many assets.

The Leafs need to be building with these young prospects and top picks, the whole thing reminds me of two 1st rounders for Kessel.

I hadn't considered the free agency status, so that's a good point. I should also note that I think Gardiner is our best prospect/young player. That shows how highly I think of Schneider. I think he's going to be a very good no.1 in this league and would be willing to move significant assets to get him.

I would just like to point out........... in this scenario you are potentially giving up 2 franchise players to get Schneider + a late 1st rounder.

 

[Corn Flake]

It has likely been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but if I'm Vancouver, I might be more inclined to move Luongo.  If they can sign Schneider for close to $3MM and get a decent young backup with some upside in the trade for Luongo, they'd be in great shape and would save some $2MM+ against the cap.

Luongo would thrive in Toronto cause he could get a house in Woodbridge.

And he could pretend he owns Bosco plumbing.

 

[Erndog]

Gardiner + our 1st for Schneider + Van's 1st is probably a touch too steep, but I don't think it's that far off, especially if our 1st is 10th overall.

When you balance out the ELC versus RFA status and add the 1st exchange, that's way too steep for me.

Don't get me wrong, Schneider seems like a good young goalie and would address a real problem but that seems like burning up too many assets.

The Leafs need to be building with these young prospects and top picks, the whole thing reminds me of two 1st rounders for Kessel.

I hadn't considered the free agency status, so that's a good point. I should also note that I think Gardiner is our best prospect/young player. That shows how highly I think of Schneider. I think he's going to be a very good no.1 in this league and would be willing to move significant assets to get him.

I would just like to point out........... in this scenario you are potentially giving up 2 franchise players to get Schneider + a late 1st rounder.

Right, "potentially." 

Just like you are potentially giving up Nikita Filatov 2.0 and Tom Gilbert (seriously, he had the same impact in his first full season and Oilers fans LOVED him) for a franchise goalie.

 

[Bullfrog]

I would just like to point out........... in this scenario you are potentially giving up 2 franchise players to get Schneider + a late 1st rounder.

You have to give to get.

 

[maplesyrup]

Gardiner + our 1st for Schneider + Van's 1st is probably a touch too steep, but I don't think it's that far off, especially if our 1st is 10th overall.

When you balance out the ELC versus RFA status and add the 1st exchange, that's way too steep for me.

Don't get me wrong, Schneider seems like a good young goalie and would address a real problem but that seems like burning up too many assets.

The Leafs need to be building with these young prospects and top picks, the whole thing reminds me of two 1st rounders for Kessel.

I hadn't considered the free agency status, so that's a good point. I should also note that I think Gardiner is our best prospect/young player. That shows how highly I think of Schneider. I think he's going to be a very good no.1 in this league and would be willing to move significant assets to get him.

I would just like to point out........... in this scenario you are potentially giving up 2 franchise players to get Schneider + a late 1st rounder.

... but like I said a number of days ago, you'd only do that deal if your scouting department felt "franchise" calibre prospects were going to be gone before you drafted AND there was a couple guys you REALLY liked projected to go at the back end of the first round... and as far as Gardiner goes, you really feel the sky is the limit for him?   

 

[Corn Flake]

Gardiner + our 1st for Schneider + Van's 1st is probably a touch too steep, but I don't think it's that far off, especially if our 1st is 10th overall.

When you balance out the ELC versus RFA status and add the 1st exchange, that's way too steep for me.

Don't get me wrong, Schneider seems like a good young goalie and would address a real problem but that seems like burning up too many assets.

The Leafs need to be building with these young prospects and top picks, the whole thing reminds me of two 1st rounders for Kessel.

I hadn't considered the free agency status, so that's a good point. I should also note that I think Gardiner is our best prospect/young player. That shows how highly I think of Schneider. I think he's going to be a very good no.1 in this league and would be willing to move significant assets to get him.

I would just like to point out........... in this scenario you are potentially giving up 2 franchise players to get Schneider + a late 1st rounder.

Right, "potentially." 

Just like you are potentially giving up Nikita Filatov 2.0 and Tom Gilbert (seriously, he had the same impact in his first full season and Oilers fans LOVED him) for a franchise goalie.

Come on Ern Dog, your excessive pessimism with the Leafs young players, and players they haven't even drafted yet, is getting a bit ridiculous.  Tom freaking Gilbert?  Sure, just pick out a random failed player out of the sky and latch that career path on to Gardiner.  Seems like a reasonable method of analyzing Jake's future.  Filatov?  Those who did their homework on that kid saw it coming a mile away.  Again, another worst case comparable.

OF COURSE Gardiner and the pick-to-be could flop.  Gardiner could end up being Scott freaking Neidermeyer too.

The what if's go both ways in trades like this. What's the "potential" that Schenider comes here and has the same complete lack of success that other highly touted, but unproven as a starter goaltenders that the Leafs have overpaid to get have had here?    The collective heads of every Leafs fan in this country would explode and we would probably burn down the ACC at that point. 

Goalies are way too flaky to take that chance.  We've learned our lesson enough times here. I don't care how good Schneider is.. and I like him... I'm not trading away two potential franchise players for him.

Sign or trade for the grizzled veteran, even if he is old and grey.. if he can play then we take him on and let the kids develop along side. 

 

[Erndog]

Gardiner + our 1st for Schneider + Van's 1st is probably a touch too steep, but I don't think it's that far off, especially if our 1st is 10th overall.

When you balance out the ELC versus RFA status and add the 1st exchange, that's way too steep for me.

Don't get me wrong, Schneider seems like a good young goalie and would address a real problem but that seems like burning up too many assets.

The Leafs need to be building with these young prospects and top picks, the whole thing reminds me of two 1st rounders for Kessel.

I hadn't considered the free agency status, so that's a good point. I should also note that I think Gardiner is our best prospect/young player. That shows how highly I think of Schneider. I think he's going to be a very good no.1 in this league and would be willing to move significant assets to get him.

I would just like to point out........... in this scenario you are potentially giving up 2 franchise players to get Schneider + a late 1st rounder.

Right, "potentially." 

Just like you are potentially giving up Nikita Filatov 2.0 and Tom Gilbert (seriously, he had the same impact in his first full season and Oilers fans LOVED him) for a franchise goalie.

Come on Ern Dog, your excessive pessimism with the Leafs young players, and players they haven't even drafted yet, is getting a bit ridiculous.  Tom freaking Gilbert?  Sure, just pick out a random failed player out of the sky and latch that career path on to Gardiner.  Seems like a reasonable method of analyzing Jake's future.  Filatov?  Those who did their homework on that kid saw it coming a mile away.  Again, another worst case comparable.

OF COURSE Gardiner and the pick-to-be could flop.  Gardiner could end up being Scott freaking Neidermeyer too.

The what if's go both ways in trades like this. What's the "potential" that Schenider comes here and has the same complete lack of success that other highly touted, but unproven as a starter goaltenders that the Leafs have overpaid to get have had here?    The collective heads of every Leafs fan in this country would explode and we would probably burn down the ACC at that point. 

Goalies are way too flaky to take that chance.  We've learned our lesson enough times here. I don't care how good Schneider is.. and I like him... I'm not trading away two potential franchise players for him.

Sign or trade for the grizzled veteran, even if he is old and grey.. if he can play then we take him on and let the kids develop along side.

My excessive pessimism with Leaf youngters?  Why, because I think Joe Colborne is a giant fail?  Have you ever read what I've said about Gardiner, or Kadri, or Frattin?  Gardiner is probably my current fav Leaf (next to Kessel), I have expectations of Frattin becoming a pretty good player and I really like Kadri and feel he's going to become a prett darn good player (I even said I see his path similar to Mike Ribeiro).  So excuse me for thinking Colborne is a piece of dung and Schenn kinda sucks while I'm actually pretty fond of 3 of our other youngsters.  Don't accuse me of painting the brush across all of them.

And Tom "freaken" Gilbert's first couple seasons is a pretty accurate portrail of Jake Gardiner so far. Both guys are big American guys, who aren't overly physical, very good skaters, good passers, decent shots, and a good offensive game.  The problem became that Gilbert really regressed, flopped and became pretty crappy but you forget that over the course of his first 2 seasons he was pretty good and showing signs of becoming a real good top pairing Dman.  Didn't work out that way... and I'm just saying that it's very possible the same happens to Jake.  Look at Schenn... a couple years ago he was seen a the "Human Eraser", a future captain, was progressing well and now the guy is being run out of town by a lot of people.

Anyways... I want to solve the goaltending crisis here once and for all.  5+ years of atrocious goaltending has worn on me.  These old grizzled vet stop caps you suggest will leave us in the exact same situation next summer or the summer after.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  I'm willing to take a shot at a guy like Schneider (or Halak) and giving them the keys. 

And for the record, I would not trade Gardiner and our 1st for either.  I'm just saying that we need to give to get and I would consider trading "a lot" for Schneider.

 

[Corn Flake]

My excessive pessimism with Leaf youngters?  Why, because I think Joe Colborne is a giant fail?  Have you ever read what I've said about Gardiner, or Kadri, or Frattin?

Well no I haven't studied your posts but I have read a lot of them where you generally have very bleak outlooks on the players we have talked about.  You like Gardiner but use a Tom Gilbert comparison to support the view to trade the guy. That isn't pessimistic?  Sure sounds that way to me.  Lots of top-flight d-men had similar starts to Tom Gilbert and didn't regress.  Sure it could happen but it could happen just as easily to the goalie you are proposing we trade for.

Anyway..............

Anyways... I want to solve the goaltending crisis here once and for all.  5+ years of atrocious goaltending has worn on me.  These old grizzled vet stop caps you suggest will leave us in the exact same situation next summer or the summer after.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  I'm willing to take a shot at a guy like Schneider (or Halak) and giving them the keys. 

And for the record, I would not trade Gardiner and our 1st for either.  I'm just saying that we need to give to get and I would consider trading "a lot" for Schneider.

There were basically 3 goalies in the last 25 years who "permanently" solved the problem in net in Toronto... Potvin, Cujo and Belfour.. and 2 of those 3 were grizzled veterans signed as UFA's.  The other one was brought up through the system and tutored under a grizzled veteran named Grant Fuhr.  I'm looking for the Grant Fuhr (hopefully a few years younger).

The two times the Leafs tried to land the young goalie of the future via trade it blew up in their faces big time.  Not saying Schneider is Raycroft, but I think there is a psychological thing going on where these kids come in and the pressure to suddenly become a starter in this environment just kills them.  Hence the reason I think veteran is the way to go.

Halak I like.. he might be a good option because he's done the job, and also stolen the starter's job in the post season in an even more pressure cooker of a city than Toronto.  He's proven more than Schneider for sure.  Would be a safer and cheaper bet.

 

[maplesyrup]

Yeah, I should point out that I'm not hell bent for just Schneider. There are certainly some other attractive options out there. I totally get the sit back and let/hope one of the kids emerge but that's not where my head is at right now - I'm not sure it will be. I really want this team to go in to next season with zero questions in goal. 

 

[princedpw]

The most damaging thing to our franchise over the last decade is probably the trade of Rask, 1st, 2nd, 3rd for Raycroft and Toskala.  Just say no to trading first round picks and elite prospects for young or backup goaltenders who have never shown a consistent ability to play season after season, 65+ games in net.  Goalies are too unpredictable.

 

[Tigger]

I really want this team to go in to next season with zero questions in goal.

That would be nice but it's practically impossible.

 

[maplesyrup]

I really want this team to go in to next season with zero questions in goal.

That would be nice but it's practically impossible.

Well, as few as possible then.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

It has likely been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but if I'm Vancouver, I might be more inclined to move Luongo.  If they can sign Schneider for close to $3MM and get a decent young backup with some upside in the trade for Luongo, they'd be in great shape and would save some $2MM+ against the cap.

Vancouver actually already has that guy in Eddie Lack, they just need to make room for him.

 

[Hurricane]

It has likely been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but if I'm Vancouver, I might be more inclined to move Luongo.  If they can sign Schneider for close to $3MM and get a decent young backup with some upside in the trade for Luongo, they'd be in great shape and would save some $2MM+ against the cap.

Vancouver actually already has that guy in Eddie Lack, they just need to make room for him.

Well then, even easier for them to make that trade.  Luongo for futures.  I'd take him, assuming Vokoun is off the table.

 

[Bullfrog]

Luongo for futures?? He's one of the best and most consistent goaltenders in the league.

 

[Hurricane]

Luongo for futures?? He's one of the best and most consistent goaltenders in the league.

Yeah, by "futures" I meant picks and prospects.  I didn't mean "future considerations".  Basically, if the Canucks decide Luongo is potentially available, the Leafs should be part of discussion.

 

[Bullfrog]

Thanks for the clarification. I honestly thought you meant future considerations.

 

[Hurricane]

Thanks for the clarification. I honestly thought you meant future considerations.

Fair enough.  I wasn't very clear.

Your comment got me thinking a little more about what the Canucks might want.  I had kind of assumed they were a fairly complete team and would just want to add to their cupboard.  Taking a look at their team this year, they don't have a ton of point scorers past the Sedins.  I'm sure it will depend on their playoff run, but it would be interesting if they had some interest in Lupul. 

Lupul is a guy that is likely at or close to his peak trading value.  I'd much rather the Leafs trade him than a top 5 pick or a young player with tremendous potential like Jake Gardiner.

Anyway, just a thought.

 

[Bullfrog]

True, that would be preferable. However, i think Lupul + Gardiner + ... is the starting point of a conversation.