We need Cory Schneider

[Andy007]

The Sedins aren't soft.

Maybe not Kessel soft. Daniel certainly pasted Keith the other night but they do have a reputation of being easy to push around. I think Boston proved that last year.

Nothing says soft like losing in game 7...

You realize he didn't call the entire team soft, don't you?

I do find it funny how defensive people get around here when someone calls a European player soft, yet have no problems when that label is attributed to a North American player. Too bad Kessel isn't Swedish, he'd have an entire legion of defenders.

 

[bustaheims]

What does game 7 have to do with it? Look. - They have a reputation and that's just plain fact. I don't think it's a coincidence Burrows (not the most talented of blokes) has played the majority of his career in Vancouver on that line. 

The fact that they have a reputation does not mean that reputation is still factual.

 

[maplesyrup]

The fact that they have a reputation does not mean that reputation is still factual.

... but somehow it's false?

 

[bustaheims]

The fact that they have a reputation does not mean that reputation is still factual.

... but somehow it's false?

It certainly could be and I'd say that it is. They may not be the most ruggedly physical guys out there, but, soft is not a word I'd use to describe them anymore.

 

[Tigger]

The Sedins aren't soft.

Maybe not Kessel soft. Daniel certainly pasted Keith the other night but they do have a reputation of being easy to push around. I think Boston proved that last year.

Nothing says soft like losing in game 7...

You realize he didn't call the entire team soft, don't you?

I do find it funny how defensive people get around here when someone calls a European player soft, yet have no problems when that label is attributed to a North American player. Too bad Kessel isn't Swedish, he'd have an entire legion of defenders.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a post where I defend any nations players writ large, case by case baby.

I certainly didn't mention the team or Kessel so I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this.

 

[maplesyrup]

It certainly could be and I'd say that it is. They may not be the most ruggedly physical guys out there, but, soft is not a word I'd use to describe them anymore.

I'll give you that. I have seen them engage a fair bit more physically this year. Perhaps they've made a concerted effort to do so on the heels of last year. That said, I'm not sure you go out of your way to stop pairing them with a more physical winger. 

 

[bustaheims]

I'll give you that. I have seen them engage a fair bit more physically this year. Perhaps they've made a concerted effort to do so on the heels of last year. That said, I'm not sure you go out of your way to stop pairing them with a more physical winger.

Well, that's a different story, but, at the same time, the opposite of soft isn't necessarily physical. The Sedins have, for a while now, been very good at digging pucks out of scrums or holding the puck against the boards, they've shown a willingness to take a hit to make a play, fight through traffic, etc - all the things that soft players don't do. They'll never been known as heavy hitting, physical types - that's not how they're built or how they play the game - but, they're certainly not soft players anymore by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[maplesyrup]

I'll give you that. I have seen them engage a fair bit more physically this year. Perhaps they've made a concerted effort to do so on the heels of last year. That said, I'm not sure you go out of your way to stop pairing them with a more physical winger.

Well, that's a different story, but, at the same time, the opposite of soft isn't necessarily physical. The Sedins have, for a while now, been very good at digging pucks out of scrums or holding the puck against the boards, they've shown a willingness to take a hit to make a play, fight through traffic, etc - all the things that soft players don't do. They'll never been known as heavy hitting, physical types - that's not how they're built or how they play the game - but, they're certainly not soft players anymore by any stretch of the imagination.

It'll be interesting to see how they are in this playoff when teams really start to bang.

 

[princedpw]

The Sedins aren't soft.

Maybe not Kessel soft. Daniel certainly pasted Keith the other night but they do have a reputation of being easy to push around. I think Boston proved that last year.

Nothing says soft like losing in game 7...

You realize he didn't call the entire team soft, don't you?

I do find it funny how defensive people get around here when someone calls a European player soft, yet have no problems when that label is attributed to a North American player. Too bad Kessel isn't Swedish, he'd have an entire legion of defenders.

People get defensive when one calls a player soft *because* he is European or when one says "Europeans are *generally* soft."  It's those kinds of general, racist or nationalistic remarks that people object to. 

I don't think I can ever recall one person saying something like "I've watched player X and that player is bad at digging the puck out along the boards and never goes to the front of the net" and then another person saying "Hey, wait a second, player X is Swedish.  You aren't allowed to observe that that player isn't tough in the corners and in front of the net."

 

[Bullfrog]

busta, I think you're underselling Schneider. I think Gillis will get more than you think. His numbers are outstanding in the NHL and were very good in the AHL too. I'd rather have him than Gustavsson or Reimer anyday of the week and would be very willing to gamble on him and hand him the no.1 job.

Gardiner + our 1st for Schneider + Van's 1st is probably a touch too steep, but I don't think it's that far off, especially if our 1st is 10th overall.

 

[rdowdall]

If we are going this route, I say keep the young players the leafs have and create a deal centred around Kessel for Schneider.  Move pieces to offset values and risk, as well as salary.

I really don't understand this idea, trading Kessel for any goalie seems wrong headed to me.

Burke keeps saying that he builds from the net out.  Maybe if he actually did that then the Leafs would have some success.  I'm thinking that if you want a player to build around, a goalie is a better piece than a goal scoring right winger.  That's if the Leafs are going to go the Schneider route at all.  Sticking with the goalies they have in house, and just sinking or swimming with them again next year isn't that bad of an idea either.  High pick if they sink, possibly a playoff game if they swim.   

 

[Tigger]

If we are going this route, I say keep the young players the leafs have and create a deal centred around Kessel for Schneider.  Move pieces to offset values and risk, as well as salary.

I really don't understand this idea, trading Kessel for any goalie seems wrong headed to me.

Burke keeps saying that he builds from the net out.  Maybe if he actually did that then the Leafs would have some success.  I'm thinking that if you want a player to build around, a goalie is a better piece than a goal scoring right winger.  That's if the Leafs are going to go the Schneider route at all.  Sticking with the goalies they have in house, and just sinking or swimming with them again next year isn't that bad of an idea either.  High pick if they sink, possibly a playoff game if they swim. 

Well, first off, I guess you'd have to define what Burke meant by 'building' and what kind of success we're talking about, short or long yadda yadda. I'm not sure he meant 'developing talent' or 'trading for a #1' or anything else really. Frankly though, the decision to go with Reimer and Gustavsson for an entire year sort of leans one way.

I don't think trying to acquire a better goalie is a wrong headed notion, especially if you agree that goaltending was a big part of the lack of a Leaf playoff appearance this year which I do, but Burke certainly hasn't moved heaven and earth to get a proven starter ( unless one thinks a half injured and older Giguere was that, short term gamble there to me ).

Goalies are so fickle now that honestly, trading much more than futures/decent prospects is a huge and relatively unnecessary gamble/risk. Trading Kessel, which I'm far from convinced is required for future Leaf success, should involve a high degree of certainty ( not absolute as that's impossible but a consensus logic at least ).

I've yet to come across an idea that makes a lot of sense to that end, no real point in rushing that now to me.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'll give you that. I have seen them engage a fair bit more physically this year. Perhaps they've made a concerted effort to do so on the heels of last year. That said, I'm not sure you go out of your way to stop pairing them with a more physical winger.

Well, that's a different story, but, at the same time, the opposite of soft isn't necessarily physical. The Sedins have, for a while now, been very good at digging pucks out of scrums or holding the puck against the boards, they've shown a willingness to take a hit to make a play, fight through traffic, etc - all the things that soft players don't do. They'll never been known as heavy hitting, physical types - that's not how they're built or how they play the game - but, they're certainly not soft players anymore by any stretch of the imagination.

It'll be interesting to see how they are in this playoff when teams really start to bang.

I don't see why it would be any different than last playoffs.

 

[jdh1]

busta, I think you're underselling Schneider. I think Gillis will get more than you think. His numbers are outstanding in the NHL and were very good in the AHL too. I'd rather have him than Gustavsson or Reimer anyday of the week and would be very willing to gamble on him and hand him the no.1 job.

Gardiner + our 1st for Schneider + Van's 1st is probably a touch too steep, but I don't think it's that far off, especially if our 1st is 10th overall.

I would never do that...trading Gardiner and our 1st for a relatively inexperienced goalie that has not played in Toronto and the pressure of trying to be a No.1...I'm glad your not the GM.

 

[Bullfrog]

So you wouldn't trade an inexperienced defensemen that's shown some level of success for an inexperienced goalie that's shown some level of success?

I think this whole "playing in the fishbowl of Toronto" thing is overblown.

 

[maplesyrup]

I'll give you that. I have seen them engage a fair bit more physically this year. Perhaps they've made a concerted effort to do so on the heels of last year. That said, I'm not sure you go out of your way to stop pairing them with a more physical winger.

Well, that's a different story, but, at the same time, the opposite of soft isn't necessarily physical. The Sedins have, for a while now, been very good at digging pucks out of scrums or holding the puck against the boards, they've shown a willingness to take a hit to make a play, fight through traffic, etc - all the things that soft players don't do. They'll never been known as heavy hitting, physical types - that's not how they're built or how they play the game - but, they're certainly not soft players anymore by any stretch of the imagination.

It'll be interesting to see how they are in this playoff when teams really start to bang.

I don't see why it would be any different than last playoffs.

... because I feel they're playing a little more physical this season then in previous ones. - at least that's my observation... and I'm interested to see if they maintain it. 

 

[Tigger]

Gardiner + our 1st for Schneider + Van's 1st is probably a touch too steep, but I don't think it's that far off, especially if our 1st is 10th overall.

When you balance out the ELC versus RFA status and add the 1st exchange, that's way too steep for me.

Don't get me wrong, Schneider seems like a good young goalie and would address a real problem but that seems like burning up too many assets.

The Leafs need to be building with these young prospects and top picks, the whole thing reminds me of two 1st rounders for Kessel.

 

[Hurricane]

It has likely been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but if I'm Vancouver, I might be more inclined to move Luongo.  If they can sign Schneider for close to $3MM and get a decent young backup with some upside in the trade for Luongo, they'd be in great shape and would save some $2MM+ against the cap.

 

[Zee]

It has likely been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but if I'm Vancouver, I might be more inclined to move Luongo.  If they can sign Schneider for close to $3MM and get a decent young backup with some upside in the trade for Luongo, they'd be in great shape and would save some $2MM+ against the cap.

Luongo would thrive in Toronto cause he could get a house in Woodbridge.

 

[Bullfrog]

Gardiner + our 1st for Schneider + Van's 1st is probably a touch too steep, but I don't think it's that far off, especially if our 1st is 10th overall.

When you balance out the ELC versus RFA status and add the 1st exchange, that's way too steep for me.

Don't get me wrong, Schneider seems like a good young goalie and would address a real problem but that seems like burning up too many assets.

The Leafs need to be building with these young prospects and top picks, the whole thing reminds me of two 1st rounders for Kessel.

I hadn't considered the free agency status, so that's a good point. I should also note that I think Gardiner is our best prospect/young player. That shows how highly I think of Schneider. I think he's going to be a very good no.1 in this league and would be willing to move significant assets to get him.