What to do with JVR

[Redleaf]

I do think the Leafs are better with JVR than without, hence the dilemma.

I don't think that's a statement that can made without knowing what is coming back for JVR.  You said in another post that JVR would do well in Anahiem.  If the deal was JVR for Vatanen, then on paper it would seem that they would actually get stronger.

I did say in an earlier post that I would trade JVR for an upgrade on defence, but I just think that it is unlikely.

Trading JVR earlier than this year may have yielded a d-man.  His price seems to be dropping.  He may walk away for nothing at the end of the year, which in that case means the Leafs get worse next, and get nothing for him.  If they move him for picks, even if they get worse for the time being which is debatable, at least they can recoup some of that in potentially future pieces.

What makes you think his price is dropping? If anything I?d say it?s going up. He?s been scoring goals this season at a pretty decent clip.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Lamoriello will take his time and make a decision to his strategic advantage.  He's been known to use time as a commodity rather than a weapon, so to speak.  So, whether JVR is traded, re-signed or is let go, will depend largely on Lou & management's view of where the team stands.

Also, as was the case with Connor Brown who signed at a 'discounted' or what's called a 'hometown discount', it's so possible that JVR will lower his contract (re-signing less for long-term), thus making it less difficult for the Leafs as per their salary cap.

 

[Arn]

Lamoriello will take his time and make a decision to his strategic advantage.  He's been known to use time as a commodity rather than a weapon, so to speak.  So, whether JVR is traded, re-signed or is let go, will depend largely on Lou & management's view of where the team stands.

Also, as was the case with Connor Brown who signed at a 'discounted' or what's called a 'hometown discount', it's so possible that JVR will lower his contract (re-signing less for long-term), thus making it less difficult for the Leafs as per their salary cap.

Why's that? Brown is from Ontario, JVR is from New Jersey?

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Lamoriello will take his time and make a decision to his strategic advantage.  He's been known to use time as a commodity rather than a weapon, so to speak.  So, whether JVR is traded, re-signed or is let go, will depend largely on Lou & management's view of where the team stands.

Also, as was the case with Connor Brown who signed at a 'discounted' or what's called a 'hometown discount', it's so possible that JVR will lower his contract (re-signing less for long-term), thus making it less difficult for the Leafs as per their salary cap.

Why's that? Brown is from Ontario, JVR is from New Jersey?

It would be because he made his name here, no?

He's had the most successful time of his career in Toronto, so re-signing at a discount would be a 'hometown' discount, even though he's not literally from here.

There have also been numerous reports from the Leafs beat guys that JVR has openly acknowledged a willingness to take less $$$ for more term, ala Oshie.

 

[herman]

It would be because he made his name here, no?

He's had the most successful time of his career in Toronto, so re-signing at a discount would be a 'hometown' discount, even though he's not literally from here.

There have also been numerous reports from the Leafs beat guys that JVR has openly acknowledged a willingness to take less $$$ for more term, ala Oshie.

Unfortunately for JvR, the number that we are more concerned about is the term.

Maybe he's an upper echelon athlete like Marleau appears to be, so 28+8 isn't going to give him much of a dip, but I'd rather another team figure that out. There isn't enough in JvR's game to suggest he can develop any new facets to round out his contributions if his speed declines.

 

[rdowdall]

I do think the Leafs are better with JVR than without, hence the dilemma.

I don't think that's a statement that can made without knowing what is coming back for JVR.  You said in another post that JVR would do well in Anahiem.  If the deal was JVR for Vatanen, then on paper it would seem that they would actually get stronger.

I did say in an earlier post that I would trade JVR for an upgrade on defence, but I just think that it is unlikely.

Trading JVR earlier than this year may have yielded a d-man.  His price seems to be dropping.  He may walk away for nothing at the end of the year, which in that case means the Leafs get worse next, and get nothing for him.  If they move him for picks, even if they get worse for the time being which is debatable, at least they can recoup some of that in potentially future pieces.

What makes you think his price is dropping? If anything I?d say it?s going up. He?s been scoring goals this season at a pretty decent clip.

The fact that he is a free agent at the end of the year probably affects the price.  Shattenkirk bolting from the Caps last year has probably soured some teams on high priced rentals.  It could be mitigated by allowing teams to talk to JvR before a trade, but that puts a little more power in to JvR's camp than it does the Leafs.  It also seems that the overall price of wingers is dropping.  Ever since the Hall for Larsson deal it seems that teams would rather spend assets to acquire players at other positions rather than on the wings.  These things don't mean that you won't get absolutely nothing for JvR, but if the Leafs had traded him during last season, or when they made the Kessel deal, they probably would have gotten more then they are if the move him this season.

 

[mr grieves]

On reflection, I think I'll conclude that my opening bid -- trading him and other UFAs for picks and prospects -- was the right and proper position and those who disagree were wrooooonnnng.

One more playoff game for a reasonably good (or even just 'any sort of') chance at decent, cost controlled players in 3 years is a bad deal.

Lou. Retire, binch.

 

[ZBBM]

I don't think they should re-sign him but he did score 3 PP goals in the series, which is more than 34 & 29 did.  So best wishes James, you were a great trade and all the best wherever you land.

 

[Kin]

On reflection, I think I'll conclude that my opening bid -- trading him and other UFAs -- for futures was the right move.

One more playoff game for a reasonably good chance at decent, cost controlled players in 3 years is a bad deal.

Lou. Retire, binch.

Yeah, that was just a terribly mismanaged move. It bums me out to have been right about it but the Leafs were always going to face long odds getting out of the first round and you don't keep guys around for that.

It just reeked of "Hey, steps 1 and 2 of the project are going well, that means we can skip steps 3 and 4, right?"

 

[ZBBM]

On reflection, I think I'll conclude that my opening bid -- trading him and other UFAs -- for futures was the right move.

One more playoff game for a reasonably good chance at decent, cost controlled players in 3 years is a bad deal.

Lou. Retire, binch.

Yeah, that was just a terribly mismanaged move. It bums me out to have been right about it but the Leafs were always going to face long odds getting out of the first round and you don't keep guys around for that.

It just reeked of "Hey, steps 1 and 2 of the project are going well, that means we can skip steps 3 and 4, right?"

Bang on.  They should have stayed with the plan (at least the plan of 2 years ago).

 

[mr grieves]

I don't think they should re-sign him but he did score 3 PP goals in the series, which is more than 34 & 29 did.  So best wishes James, you were a great trade and all the best wherever you land.

Which amounts to... what exactly? We go out in 5 rather than 6? I don't care a fig.

It just reeked of "Hey, steps 1 and 2 of the project are going well, that means we can skip steps 3 and 4, right?"

No, you can't skip like so, and it's your job to see that and act accordingly! Otherwise we could just let sickbeast or whoever run the damned franchise. So... Agreed. And on your point -- somewhere up there -- that it was an indecisive, cowardly move constrained by common sense.

 

[ZBBM]

I don't think they should re-sign him but he did score 3 PP goals in the series, which is more than 34 & 29 did.  So best wishes James, you were a great trade and all the best wherever you land.

Which amounts to... what exactly? We go out in 5 rather than 6? I don't care a fig.

It just reeked of "Hey, steps 1 and 2 of the project are going well, that means we can skip steps 3 and 4, right?"

No, you can't skip like so, and it's your job to see that and act accordingly! Otherwise we could just let sickbeast or whoever run the damned franchise. So... Agreed. And on your point -- somewhere up there -- that it was an indecisive, cowardly move constrained by common sense.

Just saying in the blame queue he's about 2/3ds of the way back.

 

[Bender]

Yeah, I mean JVR is just terrible 5v5. You don't pay a crap ton for a one dimensional PP specialist.

 

[mr grieves]

Just saying in the blame queue he's about 2/3ds of the way back.

My bringing the thread back to life has nothing to do with blame for the outcome of the Boston series. Rather, has to do with the inability of management to apprehend the situation their team was in, which has been clear to a lot of us for months now.

 

[Kin]

Yeah, I mean, I've probably said it a billion times but he should have been traded because he had value, not because he didn't. That he showed some of that value in the series is not a counter-point.

 

[Bender]

Just saying in the blame queue he's about 2/3ds of the way back.

My bringing the thread back to life has nothing to do with blame for the outcome of the Boston series. Rather, has to do with the inability of management to apprehend the situation their team was in, which has been clear to a lot of us for months now.

I think anyone controlling the team based on analytics and underlying numbers would've been very worried about the Leafs' lack of possession and getting consistently outshot as signs of a quick playoff exit.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Say goodbye to JVR. 1 dimensional player. Leo needs to go to..

 

[ZBBM]

Just saying in the blame queue he's about 2/3ds of the way back.

My bringing the thread back to life has nothing to do with blame for the outcome of the Boston series. Rather, has to do with the inability of management to apprehend the situation their team was in, which has been clear to a lot of us for months now.

Right, and as I said I agree with you.

 

[rdowdall]

So game 7 collapse against Boston, after a gutsy comeback try, and the collapse was predicted by stats that showed the Leafs were playing over their heads?

Did I fall through a portal to 2013?

They better not go out and throw money at Rick Nash because "he brings the element they need".  I hope they don't go in to the offseason thinking they are closer than they are.

 

[Bullfrog]

I'm actually OK with them bringing in Nash, assuming Bozak, Komarov, and JvR are gone. We need someone to play.