Getzlaf and Ryan "in play" according to Bob Murray

[L K]

I'm wondering if we should just wait for Colborne. I have a feeling that he is going to be a very good player in the NHL. He's starting to realize that he has the size and his skill is undeniable. Connolly is only signed for another year after this, it might be the better move for Burke to just wait and see what we have, rather than decimating the team to acquire one player.

I think that this team is a tight bunch and that everything is going to continue to improve with more development. Sometimes our patience as Leaf fans could be a bit better, to say the least.

I think the Colborne hype got a little too fevered because he had a dominant October in the AHL.  He's nowhere near ready to be a #1 NHL centre, he's probably 2-3 years away from it if he ever gets there. 

After that hot October where he had 16 points in 9 games he has put up 3G 5A in his next 15 games in the AHL.  It's still not awful production and his season numbers amount to 24P in 24 GP, but it is WAY too early to bank on Colborne being an offensive force capable of being the #1 centre.

 

[ZBBM]

I actually think this is one of those scenarios where, if Getzlaf does get traded, people might be surprised at what he gets dealt for. Getzlaf's a good player, no doubt, but he's not exactly young and he's struggling. If I'm a NHL GM I'm not going to trade a guy who's young and already lights out like RNH or Seguin and I'd be pretty hesitant about trading guys just below that level like Benn or, say, Karlsson.

Any swap of Getzlaf for established guys would have to be for an established player of equal calibre who's similarly struggling. Even then though, do the Ducks get much better with a Getzlaf for Staal deal? Or would they be more or less in the exact same position.

If Getzlaf does get dealt, I have a hunch it's going to be a for a collection of second tier kind of young players/prospects/picks. I think Erndog's list is a good one in terms of what the Leafs have in that regard but I don't know if there are any players on it who are having really good NHL seasons right now. I don't think guys like Connolly or MacArthur would have any value at all in that conversation.

I'm with Nik.  The reason everyone gets superexcited when legit trade rumors for good players start up is that there are so few trades anymore. 

When Ryan was dangled, people wanted Ryan.  Now that Getzlaf is dangled, people want him.

There are plenty of things I don't like about Burke but generally (not always) he's been a shrewd trader.  No way would I give up, say, 3 or 4 of our young roster players for a Getzlaf.  (Or a Ryan.)  And I don't think Burke will.

 

[maplesyrup]

But isn't it sort of how team building works? Not every kid you draft and/or develop is going to be part of your long term future. If you've been (as you say) "shrewd" in stockpiling these guys, not everyone fits on your roster... Sooner or later, you need to move these guys for something... I suppose you can move them for picks and such but we're going the other way now, aren't we?

 

[Corn Flake]

I'm wondering if we should just wait for Colborne. I have a feeling that he is going to be a very good player in the NHL. He's starting to realize that he has the size and his skill is undeniable. Connolly is only signed for another year after this, it might be the better move for Burke to just wait and see what we have, rather than decimating the team to acquire one player.

I think that this team is a tight bunch and that everything is going to continue to improve with more development. Sometimes our patience as Leaf fans could be a bit better, to say the least.

BORING!!!!

Kidding.... the more conservative approach is also a good one, but comes with as much risk as the aggressive one.  The positive is you keep the team we have together to let them grow and if/when the Colbornes and Kadris arrive and start making an impact, they come up under the guys currently producing and make the team that much deeper. But that could take 3 more seasons for that, and it might never happen.

Patience has certainly not been a virtue of the Maple Leafs.  Maybe you are right and its time to exercise some, even if it means this all takes longer.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I think the Colborne hype got a little too fevered because he had a dominant October in the AHL.  He's nowhere near ready to be a #1 NHL centre, he's probably 2-3 years away from it if he ever gets there. 

After that hot October where he had 16 points in 9 games he has put up 3G 5A in his next 15 games in the AHL.  It's still not awful production and his season numbers amount to 24P in 24 GP, but it is WAY too early to bank on Colborne being an offensive force capable of being the #1 centre.

I hear that, but in my opinion of the jump in positive development, even with his time on the NHL ice, he appeared to me to be leaps and bounds better than even when he first arrived in our organization. If he continues, I don't think there is much doubt that he will be a good top center. Of course that is just how I see it, I suppose he could regress, but I just don't think he will.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Kidding.... the more conservative approach is also a good one, but comes with as much risk as the aggressive one.  The positive is you keep the team we have together to let them grow and if/when the Colbornes and Kadris arrive and start making an impact, they come up under the guys currently producing and make the team that much deeper. But that could take 3 more seasons for that, and it might never happen.

Patience has certainly not been a virtue of the Maple Leafs.  Maybe you are right and its time to exercise some, even if it means this all takes longer.

I don't think we should bank on it, but we're already seeing a much better, seemingly ready Kadri, so I don't think he is 2-3 years away from making a bigger impact. Colborne I guess could go either way, but from where I'm watching, he looks like he will make it, at least as a #2 center.

So taking what is being talked about in that light, maybe we can make a decision on which of the guys we could potentially trade, while not touching Colborne and Kadri and keep an eye out, rather than putting all our eggs into the Getzlaf basket too early. Just a thought anyway..

 

[CarltonTheBear]

One guy whose name I haven't heard anyone mention is Bozak. I think he could very well be an attractive asset for Anaheim, and his value has never been higher at any point in his NHL career. He's on a very affordable contract for this year and next (before becoming an UFA). Anaheim will almost definitely be looking for a stop-gap centre in return and Bozak has proving that he's capable of filling that role between two better players. Connolly and Grabovski likely won't be as attractive for Anaheim because of their salary (in Connolly case) and their free agent status (for Grabs).

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

One guy whose name I haven't heard anyone mention is Bozak. I think he could very well be an attractive asset for Anaheim, and his value has never been higher at any point in his NHL career. He's on a very affordable contract for this year and next (before becoming an UFA). Anaheim will almost definitely be looking for a stop-gap centre in return and Bozak has proving that he's capable of filling that role between two better players. Connolly and Grabovski likely won't be as attractive for Anaheim because of their salary (in Connolly case) and their free agent status (for Grabs).

I hate to admit that, because I really like that player, but he would probably be the guy to build any trade of this caliber around. Add pieces, probably a defenseman with Bozak and you most likely have the workings of a decent trade, especially when the guy coming back fills the gap that Bozak was in.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

One guy whose name I haven't heard anyone mention is Bozak. I think he could very well be an attractive asset for Anaheim, and his value has never been higher at any point in his NHL career. He's on a very affordable contract for this year and next (before becoming an UFA). Anaheim will almost definitely be looking for a stop-gap centre in return and Bozak has proving that he's capable of filling that role between two better players. Connolly and Grabovski likely won't be as attractive for Anaheim because of their salary (in Connolly case) and their free agent status (for Grabs).

Here or in the media? 'Cause his name has come up quite a bit in this thread.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

One guy whose name I haven't heard anyone mention is Bozak. I think he could very well be an attractive asset for Anaheim, and his value has never been higher at any point in his NHL career. He's on a very affordable contract for this year and next (before becoming an UFA). Anaheim will almost definitely be looking for a stop-gap centre in return and Bozak has proving that he's capable of filling that role between two better players. Connolly and Grabovski likely won't be as attractive for Anaheim because of their salary (in Connolly case) and their free agent status (for Grabs).

Here or in the media? 'Cause his name has come up quite a bit in this thread.

I meant in this thread. I guess I must have just missed it.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I'm not a stats guy and some may not like the method, but someone on MLHS put out this comparison of points per million earned, of top centers in the league.

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2012/01/06/morning-mashup-salivating-over-getzlaf/#more-25005

 

[Corn Flake]

I don't think we should bank on it, but we're already seeing a much better, seemingly ready Kadri, so I don't think he is 2-3 years away from making a bigger impact. Colborne I guess could go either way, but from where I'm watching, he looks like he will make it, at least as a #2 center.

So taking what is being talked about in that light, maybe we can make a decision on which of the guys we could potentially trade, while not touching Colborne and Kadri and keep an eye out, rather than putting all our eggs into the Getzlaf basket too early. Just a thought anyway..

Sorry ... yes I meant Colborne more than Kadri.  The former just strikes me as the type of player who may take a few seasons to really get rolling, but then again these prospects arriving and having a few years of AHL under their belts is a bit of a new concept to Leafs fans, so maybe I'm wrong. 

I think when I look at this team as a whole I am more concerned about the defense and goaltending maturing than I am the forwards. 

Still, at 27, Getzlaf has a lot left to go and I think this year is one of those wacky off ones that do happen from time to time.  Hopefully it has lessened his value but also is what has made him expendable.

 

[Britishbulldog]

hopefully burke and murray still bffs despite the lupul/gardiner trade

Murray did get the d-man he wanted that helped Anaheim finish 4th last year, and I don't think either of them or even the biggest Lupul fan on earth would have predicted he would put up numbers like this. 

With all the back and other injury issues Lupul had, Burke took on all the risk with this trade and at that time, it was going to be 2 seasons of paying a guy $4 mil for who-knows-what level of performance.

We are just getting the Lupul everyone thought was there on draft day, only better.

I agree 100%.  My impression with the Lupul/Gardiner for Beauchemin deal was that Anaheim needed help with their defense and Beauchemin was a known entity to them PLUS Lupul was damaged goods that was on a large contract that Burke was willing to eat as the Leafs are rich and the Ducks are broke.  For taking the albatross contract of Lupul, Burke was able to get one of the good defense prospects of the Ducks.

I don't know if Lupul's $4.25 MIL contract wasn't insured...I know that Lombardi's $3.5 MIL Nashville contract wasn't.

What has happened is last year Lupul was able to get a few games in after being injured for so long and he showed potential.

Now I see a talented player in Lombardi get a few games in after being injured so long and wonder if next year he also might have a "Lupul" year and look like an even BIGGER steal as he was included with Franson for just Lebda and Slaney...just wondering.

 

[Zee]

I'll never forget Getzlaf playing in the playoffs for Anaheim and just dominating games.  There's no way the Anaheim GM forgets that too.  I just have a hard time believing we'll be able to trade for a guy like that without a huge package going back.

 

[Erndog]

I'll never forget Getzlaf playing in the playoffs for Anaheim and just dominating games.  There's no way the Anaheim GM forgets that too.  I just have a hard time believing we'll be able to trade for a guy like that without a huge package going back.

You're right... The Anaheim GM at that time was Brian Burke!

Im sure he didn't forget that

 

[Zee]

I'll never forget Getzlaf playing in the playoffs for Anaheim and just dominating games.  There's no way the Anaheim GM forgets that too.  I just have a hard time believing we'll be able to trade for a guy like that without a huge package going back.

You're right... The Anaheim GM at that time was Brian Burke!

Im sure he didn't forget that

Ha, you sly dog you.

 

[ZBBM]

But isn't it sort of how team building works? Not every kid you draft and/or develop is going to be part of your long term future. If you've been (as you say) "shrewd" in stockpiling these guys, not everyone fits on your roster... Sooner or later, you need to move these guys for something... I suppose you can move them for picks and such but we're going the other way now, aren't we?

Sure, but not 3/4 young guys off the current roster, as someone suggested.

 

[maplesyrup]

Well no, I don't see a "whole Grabo line" type trade as someone suggested either.

 

[Corn Flake]

Lebrun got quite the quote from Burke on the trade front:

"We are listening to a lot right now, and there is a good chance something will happen, but I don?t think it?s going to happen today or tomorrow,"

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/13567/trade-rumblings-leafs-bolts-ducks-in-mix

That is a significant upgrade from his quotes a short while ago which was something to the effect of 29 GM's asking crazy prices.

 

[bustaheims]

Lebrun got quite the quote from Burke on the trade front:

"We are listening to a lot right now, and there is a good chance something will happen, but I don?t think it?s going to happen today or tomorrow,"

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/13567/trade-rumblings-leafs-bolts-ducks-in-mix

That is a significant upgrade from his quotes a short while ago which was something to the effect of 29 GM's asking crazy prices.

With guys like Kadri, Colborne and Frattin knocking on the door and showing that they're all capable of playing at the NHL level, I wouldn't be surprised to see a move similar to the Beauchemin deal to create/cement a spot for one of them when everyone is healthy.