Goaltending conundrum

[CarltonTheBear]

He's an improvement on Reimer but yeah, I'm not touching Mr. Self Implosion.  Despite having a Cup and two finals appearances, he has a sparking .905 SV% in the postseason and a .909 SV% in the regular season.  The Penguins aren't the most dominant defensive team in the world but they are way better than the Leafs by virtue of puck possession alone.  Terrible Roberto Luongo has a .916 SV% in the postseason.

Yup. Really, Fleury represents a $3.2M extra in cap + asset costs to acquire him for what very easily could be nothing more than a marginal upgrade (if it's even that).

I know Fleury is taking it pretty good right now, but a marginal upgrade over Reimer? Come on...

 

[bustaheims]

I've said before I'd pay pretty much any price to get Luongo. Here's hoping he does indeed become available. The Leafs would have been a playoff team with him this season. We'll deal with the problems his contract brings in 2021 when we get there.

My biggest (and really, only) issue when it comes to acquiring Luongo is the asset cost. Unless Schneider takes them on a magical run (which, if we're being honest, is unlikely), it'll take a bundle to pry Luongo out of Vancouver, and my concern is that it sets the team back in terms of their overall talent level and leaves us with a team like we saw in the Joseph-Belfour era - good enough to win a round or two, but never solid enough to be a true Cup contender.

 

[bustaheims]

I know Fleury is taking it pretty good right now, but a marginal upgrade over Reimer? Come on...

He put up fairly average numbers behind a much better team that, as L K alluded to, was one of the best puck possession teams in the league. With all the holes the Leafs have defensively, I'm not convinced he's put up much better numbers than Reimer or Gustavsson did this season.

EDIT: If we're basing things on how he played in the playoffs, I would have identified him as a significant downgrade. He has been atrocious.

 

[Tigger]

Luongo...

I'm hoping Schneider leads the Canucks all the way to the Stanley Cup. Luongo would be available at wholesale prices.
 

I've said before I'd pay pretty much any price to get Luongo. Here's hoping he does indeed become available. The Leafs would have been a playoff team with him this season. We'll deal with the problems his contract brings in 2021 when we get there.

Yeah but then Wilson would still be here and nobody would be happy...

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I've said before I'd pay pretty much any price to get Luongo. Here's hoping he does indeed become available. The Leafs would have been a playoff team with him this season. We'll deal with the problems his contract brings in 2021 when we get there.

My biggest (and really, only) issue when it comes to acquiring Luongo is the asset cost. Unless Schneider takes them on a magical run (which, if we're being honest, is unlikely), it'll take a bundle to pry Luongo out of Vancouver, and my concern is that it sets the team back in terms of their overall talent level and leaves us with a team like we saw in the Joseph-Belfour era - good enough to win a round or two, but never solid enough to be a true Cup contender.

I'd still rather go that route and build from the net out than do whatever the heck we've been trying the last few years.

Now, I've been struggling to try and figure out a realistic trade proposal here. Do you think something like Schenn/Gardiner, MacArthur/Kulemin, and Colborne/Ashton/pick close? If so, does that really set us back so much? Losing Schenn or Gardiner (especially Gardiner) would be rough, but would still have 6 NHL defencemen plus guys like Holzer on the farm so depth wise we'd be alright. We have potential replacements for MacArthur and Kulemin in Kadri and Frattin. Colborne and Ashton are both still a year away at least probably.

Maybe I'm not giving up enough here, but if Schneider takes over like it looks like he's going to, it only makes sense for Vancouver to move Luongo and while I don't think his contract is that bad, there will likely only be a handful of teams that need a guy like him and will take on that deal.

 

[bustaheims]

My guess is Vancouver would be looking for more established/higher calibre talent - especially if Gillis is considering making a deal with Burke.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

My guess is Vancouver would be looking for more established/higher calibre talent - especially if Gillis is considering making a deal with Burke.

If that's what he's looking for he might have a difficult time trading Luongo. I mean, I've already said that I don't think his contract is an albatross, but how many teams need a #1 goalie and would be involved in this? Toronto. Tampa. Columbus (would Lu waive?). Edmonton (would Gillies trade Lu to a divisional rival?). I can't really see any of those teams dealing one of their best players for Luongo.

I'm also not convinced that will be the route Gillies will take though. I mean, Vancouver has a pretty darn solid core. Two straight Presidents Trophies should be proof of that. If Luongo is moved shoring up some secondary scoring issues and adding some younger talent to the roster wouldn't be a bad plan.

 

[WAYNEINIONA]

This point wouldn't rectify the current situation, but I was curious to see how many goalies the Leafs have drafted under Burke's tenure and found out that is has only been one (Garret Sparks last year in the 7th round).

He has obviously gone the way of the "free wallet", signing Gustavsson, Rynnas, Owuya and Scrivens.  I wouldn't mind seeing the Leafs draft an 18-year old goalie with a 2nd round pick or move up into the latter part of the 1st round to grab their hands on a guy they can groom within the system from the outset.

The London Knights goaltender Michael Houser was just named OHL goalie of the year. I think he's 20 and has never been drafted. If he takes the Knights to the Memorial Cup there will be some Nhl clubs taking a look; like Washington.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

Vancouver will have an interesting decision to make this summer.  Regardless of what happens in the playoffs this year, it may be a challenge for them to go into next season with both Luongo and Schneider.  Both deserve to be number one goalies.  As an RFA, Schneider has some clout in forcing a trade.

Luongo has a no-trade contract, but he may decide that he wants out of town.  If so, why would he want to come to Toronto where the media and fan scrutiny is at least as great if not greater than that in Vancouver.  I think that he takes a lot of undeserved abuse in Vancouver; it could only get worse in Toronto.

It seems to me that a trade of Luongo to Tampa Bay makes the most sense for both the teams and for Luongo personally.  If I am wrong, I would love to have him on the Leafs, but not if it means stripping the team of young assets.

 

[Tigger]

Does Luongo have a full NTC? I don't know if he'd waive for Toronto but that might be a problem.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

Does Luongo have a full NTC? I don't know if he'd waive for Toronto but that might be a problem.

According to Capgeek, he does.

 

[Tigger]

Does Luongo have a full NTC? I don't know if he'd waive for Toronto but that might be a problem.

According to Capgeek, he does.

I saw that but wasn't sure, Bieksa's says 'full ntc' where Luongo's just says 'ntc'.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

Does Luongo have a full NTC? I don't know if he'd waive for Toronto but that might be a problem.

According to Capgeek, he does.

I saw that but wasn't sure, Bieksa's says 'full ntc' where Luongo's just says 'ntc'.

Good catch.  I missed the difference between the two.  My memory from the time of the signing is that it was a full NTC.  However, my memory has been known to be faulty. 

 

[Tigger]

Ah, it has two escape clauses and wouldn't be considered 'full'...

The first comes five years into the extension. If Luongo isn?t pleased with where the team is at, or where it?s heading, he can then trigger a trade. The out clause is timed for what should be an organizational crossroads ? one year after the Sedins? current long-term deal is up. The Canucks have agreed to accommodate the request by moving Luongo at that point.

It?s likely Luongo would be a valuable commodity, coveted by NHL teams even at age 36. If it were to happen, the team which traded for him would owe him $27.2 million for the final seven years of his deal.

Two years later, after the contract extension?s seventh year, the Canucks have a reciprocal clause. If they want to go in another direction, they will have an opportunity to move Luongo despite his no-trade clause.

 

[KW Sluggo]

Haven't we had enough overpriced goalies who let in the inopportune goals and the inexplicable soft ones at exactly the wrong point in the game?

 

[Tigger]

Haven't we had enough overpriced goalies who let in the inopportune goals and the inexplicable soft ones at exactly the wrong point in the game?

I don't like the idea of acquiring him, not a hard stance or anything mostly due to his contract and what Gillis would demand, but he did win a gold and go to game 7 last year.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Haven't we had enough overpriced goalies who let in the inopportune goals and the inexplicable soft ones at exactly the wrong point in the game?

I don't like the idea of acquiring him, not a hard stance or anything mostly due to his contract and what Gillis would demand, but he did win a gold and go to game 7 last year.

Who needs Vezina-nominated goalies?

 

[Tigger]

Haven't we had enough overpriced goalies who let in the inopportune goals and the inexplicable soft ones at exactly the wrong point in the game?

I don't like the idea of acquiring him, not a hard stance or anything mostly due to his contract and what Gillis would demand, but he did win a gold and go to game 7 last year.

Who needs Vezina-nominated goalies?

If it didn't cost an arm and a leg I'd be all over it, the Leafs could eat the money down the road if they needed to, no nmc...

I really wonder about the NTC though, it seems set up in a pretty specific way.

 

[maplesyrup]

I think Burke ought to consider Luongo if he's available but I doubt he'll dig the length of the contract. Stranger things have happened I suppose. 

 

[Tigger]

I think it's the cost and Gillis that would be the biggest hurdles, it seems like Burke's hard stance is on signing those contracts, I don't know if he'd be that hard on a contract he didn't sign.

Well, that is if there's no ntc issues in the first place.