Goaltending conundrum

[Tigger]

Which is why I don't think the price for Luongo will be as high as some people may think.  Vancouver is desperate to get rid of him, and he'll have a limited list of teams he'll accept a trade to.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him go for, say, a 2nd round pick.

I honestly don't believe that's the case at all.

That's probably true, but seriously, no comment on the last sentence? Seriously?

A 2nd rounder!!

It is a Toronto tradition to trade a first rounder (and more) for a goalie that lets in the inexplicably soft and inopportune goal that has to be moved by the other team.

I am afraid we would have to insist that Vancouver take our first round pick.

Tradition?

 

[bustaheims]

Tradition?

You know, something that happened once (twice, if you want to stretch the definition of 1st rounder to include prospects drafted in the 1st round), so, clearly, it's a tradition. I mean, it's not like Burke flat out said he won't be trading the Leafs' 1st round pick for a goalie . . . oh wait, he did.

 

[Tigger]

Tradition?

You know, something that happened once (twice, if you want to stretch the definition of 1st rounder to include prospects drafted in the 1st round), so, clearly, it's a tradition. I mean, it's not like Burke flat out said he won't be trading the Leafs' 1st round pick for a goalie . . . oh wait, he did.

As long as JFJ is setting the tradition, well, how can you argue with that?

 

[louisstamos]

That's probably true, but seriously, no comment on the last sentence? Seriously?

A 2nd rounder!!

I didn't feel it warranted a response. It was that ridiculous.

Now I feel like I have to qualify it...

1) I don't think Luongo is coming to the Leafs.  Call it gut feeling, but I think he'd waive his NMC to come here, and even so I don't think Vancouver would trade him to Toronto unless the Leafs were the only team to make a decent offer...

2) I think there's a limited cross-section of markets of teams that want Luongo, and teams he'd accept a trade to.  If you believe the report that he wants to come back to the Eastern Conference, which teams are in the market for a goalie?  Toronto, Tampa Bay, Florida for sure.  Maybe Washington?  Maybe Winnipeg?  Perhaps just a 2nd round pick was underselling him, but I don't think he'll go for as much as some people think...definitely not as much as when he was traded to Vancouver.  When the list of teams is small, usually the price comes down..

 

[bustaheims]

When the list of teams is small, usually the price comes down..

That really depends on how motivated the seller is, and, I don't think Vancouver be anywhere close to as motivated to move Luongo as you believe.

 

[Tigger]

When the list of teams is small, usually the price comes down..

That really depends on how motivated the seller is, and, I don't think Vancouver be anywhere close to as motivated to move Luongo as you believe.

Yeah. It kind of reminds me of St. Louis. If I was in their shoes I'd keep both for at least another year.

 

[Corn Flake]

Yeah right! Vancouver makes it to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals last year, and wins the Presidents' Trophy this year, and they fire the coach? That's madness.

Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last. 1 year of playoff success in the 6 he's been with the team. The President's Trophy is nice and all, but, the goal is to win the Cup, and, Vingeault has been out-coached in the playoffs every year.

Somewhere deep in the Habs thread I said I had a feeling Vigeault would be their next coach. I think that possibility still exists.

Again? I can't see that happening.

 

[louisstamos]

When the list of teams is small, usually the price comes down..

That really depends on how motivated the seller is, and, I don't think Vancouver be anywhere close to as motivated to move Luongo as you believe.

Maybe not right now, but it could depend on how much Schneider receives as an RFA.  If he signs for under $2.5, they would probably be inclined to keep both (and would probably be a steal of a contract...granted Schneider is only proven as a backup/1B at the NHL level, even though his stats are amazing).  If he receives $3mil+ per year, all of a sudden, the Canucks have close to $9 mil of their cap invested in their goalies.  It's might be only a little excessive, but it would prevent their ability to improve other areas of their team, especially since they already have $55mil committed to 17 players without Schneider (RFA), Raymond (RFA), Phalsson (UFA) & Salo (UFA).

As as Carlton already mentioned, it may not be so much Vancouver's choice as much as it might be a matter of Luongo wanting out, not wanting to be in a 1A/1B scenario...

 

[maplesyrup]

Yeah right! Vancouver makes it to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals last year, and wins the Presidents' Trophy this year, and they fire the coach? That's madness.

Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last. 1 year of playoff success in the 6 he's been with the team. The President's Trophy is nice and all, but, the goal is to win the Cup, and, Vingeault has been out-coached in the playoffs every year.

Somewhere deep in the Habs thread I said I had a feeling Vigeault would be their next coach. I think that possibility still exists.

Again? I can't see that happening.

Just a feeling, that's all.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

When the list of teams is small, usually the price comes down..

That really depends on how motivated the seller is, and, I don't think Vancouver be anywhere close to as motivated to move Luongo as you believe.

I think they're getting to a point where they might have to move him though.

I doubt he starts in this series again, and should they happen to make it to the 2nd round, he may see a game if Schneider stumbles but it's unlikely.

At his salary, sitting on the bench when the hockey matters is unacceptable.

 

[leafplasma]

That's probably true, but seriously, no comment on the last sentence? Seriously?

A 2nd rounder!!

I didn't feel it warranted a response. It was that ridiculous.

Now I feel like I have to qualify it...

1) I don't think Luongo is coming to the Leafs.  Call it gut feeling, but I think he'd waive his NMC to come here, and even so I don't think Vancouver would trade him to Toronto unless the Leafs were the only team to make a decent offer...

2) I think there's a limited cross-section of markets of teams that want Luongo, and teams he'd accept a trade to.  If you believe the report that he wants to come back to the Eastern Conference, which teams are in the market for a goalie?  Toronto, Tampa Bay, Florida for sure.  Maybe Washington?  Maybe Winnipeg?  Perhaps just a 2nd round pick was underselling him, but I don't think he'll go for as much as some people think...definitely not as much as when he was traded to Vancouver.  When the list of teams is small, usually the price comes down..

Although a 2nd rounder is not going to make it happen I lean more to your line of thinking then some of the others here.  Lou has a contract which is atrocious in length and at some point if not already may become an albatross.  That will not be easy to unload.  Vancouver has no leverage here and if Burke should choose to could snag Lou on the cheap.  If not he will continue to let in softies on a very talented Vancouver team while Schneider continues to show he is the best of the two time and time again.

 

[Zee]

I think desperate is the wrong word, but does Luongo really want to be a 1B goalie? He could force their hand this summer with the way Vigneault is playing Schneider.

I suppose that's a possibility, but, I don't see that happening either. Between his contract and what they'll want in return for him, they have to know moving Luongo will be an incredibly difficult thing for them to come out ahead of. Barring a miracle comeback against LA, my guess is Vingeault is gone, so, how he's treated the goalies will be pretty irrelevant and Schneider will be moved in the summer to address whatever they feel the biggest organizational need is.

I can't see them moving Schneider who many consider a bona fide #1 goalie calibre and he's only 26 years old.  Keeping a guy that many fans have already turned on, in Luongo at 33, makes no sense given that the team has basically taken away his job during the playoffs.  Luongo won't be too happy about the last 2 games, it's nothing really that he's done wrong for the Canucks to be down in the series, but Schneider is the guy now.  Barring a miracle comeback and then Luongo somehow takes back his job in the 2nd round, he'll be gone from Vancouver this summer.

 

[Bullfrog]

Although a 2nd rounder is not going to make it happen I lean more to your line of thinking then some of the others here.  Lou has a contract which is atrocious in length and at some point if not already may become an albatross.  That will not be easy to unload.  Vancouver has no leverage here and if Burke should choose to could snag Lou on the cheap.  If not he will continue to let in softies on a very talented Vancouver team while Schneider continues to show he is the best of the two time and time again.

A 2 to 1 win/loss ratio, .919 sv. percentage, 5 shutouts; all for a $5.3 M cap hit? Not even close to an albatross. I'd say it's on the cheap side.

 

[Madferret]

Don't Gillis & Burke loathe one another?

 

[Deebo]

Don't Gillis & Burke loathe one another?

They had a disagreement quite some time ago, I don't think there has been any real updates of the situation since.

One of Toronto's 87 other GM's could handle negotiations if the relationship between Burke and Gillis is that bad though.

 

[Madferret]

Don't Gillis & Burke loathe one another?

They had a disagreement quite some time ago, I don't think there has been any real updates of the situation since.

One of Toronto's 87 other GM's could handle negotiations if the relationship between Burke and Gillis is that bad though.

I suppose but I still don't think Vancouver is going to throw the Leafs a bone any time in the near future - Canuck fans would lose it.

 

[moon111]

I think Loungo would be the perfect goalie for the Leafs.  He's abit older, more experienced, and proven.  His only weakness is he's terrible in the playoffs, which is something the Leafs don't do.

 

[KW Sluggo]

Tradition?

You know, something that happened once (twice, if you want to stretch the definition of 1st rounder to include prospects drafted in the 1st round), so, clearly, it's a tradition. I mean, it's not like Burke flat out said he won't be trading the Leafs' 1st round pick for a goalie . . . oh wait, he did.

He also said a rebuild would not take 5 years (note: that was his elf imposed limit, not mine) and that he was building from the goal out and, oh yes, something about truculence etc and how his teams don't get run, they run other teams. Then last year at this time he was going to get a centre to play with Kessel.

The chasm between what Burke says and what Burke does dwafs the Grand canyon.

 

[PG]

Didn't Luongo marry a Florida native? I'm pretty sure he did. May not mean much but if he asked to be traded, I'd have to believe the Canucks would happily oblige.

I don't know how anyone can gloss over the fact that he is not starting. In the playoffs. This is a huge deal and many players have asked to be traded for lesser slights.

 

[caver]

I think Loungo would be the perfect goalie for the Leafs.  He's abit older, more experienced, and proven.  His only weakness is he's terrible in the playoffs, which is something the Leafs don't do.

thanks for your input.