Kyle Dubas not returning as GM

[Kin]

I think the Board ousted Dubas because he was angling to trade Marner before July.

Alright, now you're selling me on firing him again.

 

[cw]

I could somewhat understand the concern levels if Dubas like took his entire family on a 2-week vacation to Costa Rica to ponder his future or something, but the dude was back in the office working on Wednesday. That comment was way overblown.

Well, the fanbase didn't generate the angst.  Shanahan said the comments were the beginning of his second thoughts.

https://ca.style.yahoo.com/maple-leafs-president-brendan-shanahan-reveals-why-he-fired-gm-kyle-dubas-211839443.html

?The next day though, I would say while watching Kyle?s press [conference]? I think at that point, there was a dramatic shift in my thinking as I drove home that night as Kyle expressed, he may not want to be our GM and I have to take that very seriously," Shanahan continued.

"As I said to him the day before, I understood those feelings and the pressure players are under, the pressure management, coaches, family members are under. But it was a very real possibility at that point that I would be needing to look somewhere else. As part of my job, that is what I began to do while still hoping Kyle and I would come to some resolution."

Dubas gave Shanahan, the board, anyone related to the team and the fans cause to be concerned with his remarks outlining uncertainty. Shanahan suddenly had to begin to prepare for potentially getting a new GM.

"You're talking about the Vatican if you're Catholic, you're talking the centre of the hockey universe, you're talking about one of the most important jobs in hockey, running the Toronto Maple Leafs," Burke said. "It's a dream job."

 

[cw]

 

[herman]

I think the Board ousted Dubas because he was angling to trade Marner before July.

Alright, now you're selling me on firing him again.

Teehee

Red yarn wall:

One of the main points of contention has been GM autonomy. Friedman has clarified it wasn?t about outright autonomy, but more of streamlining the decision making process (i.e. the Board without a CEO is a mess) so the hockey ops team can take full advantage of time-sensitive windows of opportunity.

CJ talks about how the front office was reeling over the game 3 dead cat bounce of a game. They were ready to move off the We Can and We Will.

I recall one of the key points when the Board has stepped in on decisions in the past: Signing Mitch Marner?s 2nd contract so that it doesn?t turn into a Nylander situation.

Shanahan performs his DoPS video review of the negotiation process, masking the airing of dirty laundry with the veneer of factual record (so you don?t notice any omissions because of how much he is revealing). He definitely walks back Dubas?s big changes coming remarks. CJ further reports Shanahan makes mollifying calls to the core 4 to give the impression they?re staying.

 

[rdowdall]

I'm not really sure why everyone is getting all worked up.  Being the GM of the Leafs this summer is really straight forward.

1.  Ship Matthews and Marner to Chicago for the first overall pick and Seth Jones.
2.  Sign Matt Dumba, Nylander, Acciari, ROR, Kampf.
3.  Hire a coach that likes to win 1-0 games

Seems easy.

 

[bustaheims]

I will say maybe the media is wrong and Shanahan's GM search won't essentially be "let's just call the last GM to get fired". Fingers crossed.

It is quite astounding how quickly Treliving got the job. It's like he was hired before the team even started the interview process. He practically had the job before Dubas was even let go.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

After a few days of thinking about it it's still just hard to believe that this is where we're at.

If Dubas didn't want to return as Leafs GM, for whatever reason, that would have sucked but fully been his right with his contract expiring. If the Leafs wanted to make a change at GM due to the lack of playoff success the team has had under Dubas, it would have been something I disagreed with but at least there's some justification there I could understand.

Instead we have a situation where on Thursday morning everyone (Dubas, Shanny, MLSE) woke up hoping that Dubas' 9 year relationship with the team was going to continue. On Friday morning Shanny and/or MLSE decided to cut things off entirely. I just can't really fathom how whatever differences popped up over the course of the day on Thursday weren't something that could have been resolved with a little bit of time and discussion.

 

[rdowdall]

I could somewhat understand the concern levels if Dubas like took his entire family on a 2-week vacation to Costa Rica to ponder his future or something, but the dude was back in the office working on Wednesday. That comment was way overblown.

It's just another example of how the fanbase creates problems for itself. Fans pay way too much attention to clean out the locker room day so if something is said that upsets them it's attached significance because they care so much about clean out the locker room day. Why would anyone care what gets said on that day if it doesn't then conform to anything that actually happens?

If I could be a relatively informed fan without knowing the GM's name it would make no difference to me. I'm a fan of the hockey team, not the corporate structure.

I'm not even a fan of the team.  I just love this forum, so I watch them so I can contribute.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

I wonder if Dubas will apply for the position. 

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1661066475564679176

LeBrun, Friedman, Mirtle, Johnston all at least floated his name out there. Like I said before, he never seemed likely but wonder where that all came from.

It's also funny to see CJ retweet this just now. "I'm a serious hockey insider who previously wrote there?s been industry buzz about the possibility of Armstrong coming to Toronto and apparently that was all a complete fabrication. My bad! Don't forget to place your bet on TOR's next GM at dumbbettingsite.com"

 

[ZBBM]

This is why sports reporting doesn't qualify as a genuine news operation.  It's all rumors and name-floating and armchair psychologizing.

 

[ZBBM]

I could somewhat understand the concern levels if Dubas like took his entire family on a 2-week vacation to Costa Rica to ponder his future or something, but the dude was back in the office working on Wednesday. That comment was way overblown.

It's just another example of how the fanbase creates problems for itself. Fans pay way too much attention to clean out the locker room day so if something is said that upsets them it's attached significance because they care so much about clean out the locker room day. Why would anyone care what gets said on that day if it doesn't then conform to anything that actually happens?

If I could be a relatively informed fan without knowing the GM's name it would make no difference to me. I'm a fan of the hockey team, not the corporate structure.

I'm not even a fan of the team.  I just love this forum, so I watch them so I can contribute.

I hear you.  Not many hockey sites got people quoting John Maynard Keynes ? and it's relevant, too, not just name-dropping to demonstrate you went to college.

 

[rdowdall]

I could somewhat understand the concern levels if Dubas like took his entire family on a 2-week vacation to Costa Rica to ponder his future or something, but the dude was back in the office working on Wednesday. That comment was way overblown.

It's just another example of how the fanbase creates problems for itself. Fans pay way too much attention to clean out the locker room day so if something is said that upsets them it's attached significance because they care so much about clean out the locker room day. Why would anyone care what gets said on that day if it doesn't then conform to anything that actually happens?

If I could be a relatively informed fan without knowing the GM's name it would make no difference to me. I'm a fan of the hockey team, not the corporate structure.

I'm not even a fan of the team.  I just love this forum, so I watch them so I can contribute.

I hear you.  Not many hockey sites got people quoting John Maynard Keynes ? and it's relevant, too, not just name-dropping to demonstrate you went to college.

Wait, you went to college?

 

[cw]

After a few days of thinking about it it's still just hard to believe that this is where we're at.

If Dubas didn't want to return as Leafs GM, for whatever reason, that would have sucked but fully been his right with his contract expiring. If the Leafs wanted to make a change at GM due to the lack of playoff success the team has had under Dubas, it would have been something I disagreed with but at least there's some justification there I could understand.

Instead we have a situation where on Thursday morning everyone (Dubas, Shanny, MLSE) woke up hoping that Dubas' 9 year relationship with the team was going to continue. On Friday morning Shanny and/or MLSE decided to cut things off entirely. I just can't really fathom how whatever differences popped up over the course of the day on Thursday weren't something that could have been resolved with a little bit of time and discussion.

I suspect that might have been possible if Dubas had not gone public. When he went public, the board heard it - some of that same board who wouldn't renew Dubas last summer. You can be sure they inquired with Shanahan on what the heck was going on. The sudden chasm in the contract from their perspective along with the uncertainty likely undermined their support. Dubas comes off as flaky. Shanahan knew he couldn't sell it to them. Game over. Shanahan took the heat.

 

[yuzisee]

I will say maybe the media is wrong and Shanahan's GM search won't essentially be "let's just call the last GM to get fired". Fingers crossed.

It is quite astounding how quickly Treliving got the job. It's like he was hired before the team even started the interview process. He practically had the job before Dubas was even let go.

Like that time Campbell had 5?5 from Edmonton

 

[Frank E]

After a few days of thinking about it it's still just hard to believe that this is where we're at.

If Dubas didn't want to return as Leafs GM, for whatever reason, that would have sucked but fully been his right with his contract expiring. If the Leafs wanted to make a change at GM due to the lack of playoff success the team has had under Dubas, it would have been something I disagreed with but at least there's some justification there I could understand.

Instead we have a situation where on Thursday morning everyone (Dubas, Shanny, MLSE) woke up hoping that Dubas' 9 year relationship with the team was going to continue. On Friday morning Shanny and/or MLSE decided to cut things off entirely. I just can't really fathom how whatever differences popped up over the course of the day on Thursday weren't something that could have been resolved with a little bit of time and discussion.

I suspect that might have been possible if Dubas had not gone public. When he went public, the board heard it - some of that same board who wouldn't renew Dubas last summer. You can be sure they inquired with Shanahan on what the heck was going on. The sudden chasm in the contract from their perspective along with the uncertainty likely undermined their support. Dubas comes off as flaky. Shanahan knew he couldn't sell it to them. Game over. Shanahan took the heat.

This is how I read the situation.

Shanahan had a shaky support for doing a deal at the framework he and Dubas had discussed, then Dubas goes in front of the press and says he's not sure he wants the job, PLUS he asked for more money or terms...Shanahan had nowhere to go.

 

[cw]

After a few days of thinking about it it's still just hard to believe that this is where we're at.

If Dubas didn't want to return as Leafs GM, for whatever reason, that would have sucked but fully been his right with his contract expiring. If the Leafs wanted to make a change at GM due to the lack of playoff success the team has had under Dubas, it would have been something I disagreed with but at least there's some justification there I could understand.

Instead we have a situation where on Thursday morning everyone (Dubas, Shanny, MLSE) woke up hoping that Dubas' 9 year relationship with the team was going to continue. On Friday morning Shanny and/or MLSE decided to cut things off entirely. I just can't really fathom how whatever differences popped up over the course of the day on Thursday weren't something that could have been resolved with a little bit of time and discussion.

I suspect that might have been possible if Dubas had not gone public. When he went public, the board heard it - some of that same board who wouldn't renew Dubas last summer. You can be sure they inquired with Shanahan on what the heck was going on. The sudden chasm in the contract from their perspective along with the uncertainty likely undermined their support. Dubas comes off as flaky. Shanahan knew he couldn't sell it to them. Game over. Shanahan took the heat.

This is how I read the situation.

Shanahan had a shaky support for doing a deal at the framework he and Dubas had discussed, then Dubas goes in front of the press and says he's not sure he wants the job, PLUS he asked for more money or terms...Shanahan had nowhere to go.

Shanahan backed Dubas for 9 years. They can't easily get rid of him now because they need some help to get a GM quickly. After that? Shanahan might have no job to go to ... he owns a bunch of this mess.

 

[bustaheims]

https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1661066475564679176

LeBrun, Friedman, Mirtle, Johnston all at least floated his name out there. Like I said before, he never seemed likely but wonder where that all came from.

It's also funny to see CJ retweet this just now. "I'm a serious hockey insider who previously wrote there?s been industry buzz about the possibility of Armstrong coming to Toronto and apparently that was all a complete fabrication. My bad! Don't forget to place your bet on TOR's next GM at dumbbettingsite.com"

Also, something something something crypto . . . or, is he off that now that it's dying?

 

[Highlander]

I could somewhat understand the concern levels if Dubas like took his entire family on a 2-week vacation to Costa Rica to ponder his future or something, but the dude was back in the office working on Wednesday. That comment was way overblown.

It's just another example of how the fanbase creates problems for itself. Fans pay way too much attention to clean out the locker room day so if something is said that upsets them it's attached significance because they care so much about clean out the locker room day. Why would anyone care what gets said on that day if it doesn't then conform to anything that actually happens?

If I could be a relatively informed fan without knowing the GM's name it would make no difference to me. I'm a fan of the hockey team, not the corporate structure.

I'm not even a fan of the team.  I just love this forum, so I watch them so I can contribute.

I hear you.  Not many hockey sites got people quoting John Maynard Keynes ? and it's relevant, too, not just name-dropping to demonstrate you went to college.

Who is John Maynard Keynes?

 

[bustaheims]

I could somewhat understand the concern levels if Dubas like took his entire family on a 2-week vacation to Costa Rica to ponder his future or something, but the dude was back in the office working on Wednesday. That comment was way overblown.

It's just another example of how the fanbase creates problems for itself. Fans pay way too much attention to clean out the locker room day so if something is said that upsets them it's attached significance because they care so much about clean out the locker room day. Why would anyone care what gets said on that day if it doesn't then conform to anything that actually happens?

If I could be a relatively informed fan without knowing the GM's name it would make no difference to me. I'm a fan of the hockey team, not the corporate structure.

I'm not even a fan of the team.  I just love this forum, so I watch them so I can contribute.

I hear you.  Not many hockey sites got people quoting John Maynard Keynes ? and it's relevant, too, not just name-dropping to demonstrate you went to college.

Who is John Maynard Keynes?

Lead singer of Tool