Tavares

[herman]

https://theathletic.com/407569/2018/06/25/lebrun-notebook-john-tavares-list-of-teams-carter-hutton-and-jonathan-bernier-drawing-interest/

One of the interesting things about it all is that two of the teams pitching to the prized UFA centre this week also got to do it with Stamkos two years ago. The Sharks and Maple Leafs (along with Buffalo and Montreal) also pitched to Stamkos in late June 2016.

And I would argue with opposite effect.

Stamkos, by all accounts, was put off by Toronto?s over-the-top presentation and pretty much right after that one phoned Tampa Bay to say ?let?s make a deal.? Whereas it?s long been believed that the Sharks would have been Stamkos? pick had he decided to leave the Lightning, and in fact, as I?ve speculated before, San Jose and Tampa would have been ready to do a sign-and-trade, too, to get Stamkos the eight years in San Jose and get the Lightning some compensation in return.

The Leafs have learned from that Stamkos experience and a source indicated over the weekend they would have a more low-key approach in the Tavares pitch. And surely, the actual Leafs of today on the ice compared to two years ago makes for a better sell.

lolololol

 

[cabber24]

https://theathletic.com/407569/2018/06/25/lebrun-notebook-john-tavares-list-of-teams-carter-hutton-and-jonathan-bernier-drawing-interest/

One of the interesting things about it all is that two of the teams pitching to the prized UFA centre this week also got to do it with Stamkos two years ago. The Sharks and Maple Leafs (along with Buffalo and Montreal) also pitched to Stamkos in late June 2016.

And I would argue with opposite effect.

Stamkos, by all accounts, was put off by Toronto?s over-the-top presentation and pretty much right after that one phoned Tampa Bay to say ?let?s make a deal.? Whereas it?s long been believed that the Sharks would have been Stamkos? pick had he decided to leave the Lightning, and in fact, as I?ve speculated before, San Jose and Tampa would have been ready to do a sign-and-trade, too, to get Stamkos the eight years in San Jose and get the Lightning some compensation in return.

The Leafs have learned from that Stamkos experience and a source indicated over the weekend they would have a more low-key approach in the Tavares pitch. And surely, the actual Leafs of today on the ice compared to two years ago makes for a better sell.

lolololol

Love this part... "in fact, as I?ve speculated before"

 

[ZBBM]

https://theathletic.com/407569/2018/06/25/lebrun-notebook-john-tavares-list-of-teams-carter-hutton-and-jonathan-bernier-drawing-interest/

One of the interesting things about it all is that two of the teams pitching to the prized UFA centre this week also got to do it with Stamkos two years ago. The Sharks and Maple Leafs (along with Buffalo and Montreal) also pitched to Stamkos in late June 2016.

And I would argue with opposite effect.

Stamkos, by all accounts, was put off by Toronto?s over-the-top presentation and pretty much right after that one phoned Tampa Bay to say ?let?s make a deal.? Whereas it?s long been believed that the Sharks would have been Stamkos? pick had he decided to leave the Lightning, and in fact, as I?ve speculated before, San Jose and Tampa would have been ready to do a sign-and-trade, too, to get Stamkos the eight years in San Jose and get the Lightning some compensation in return.

The Leafs have learned from that Stamkos experience and a source indicated over the weekend they would have a more low-key approach in the Tavares pitch. And surely, the actual Leafs of today on the ice compared to two years ago makes for a better sell.

lolololol

Love this part... "in fact, as I?ve speculated before"

Ha, me too.  How fatuous can you get?

 

[Kin]

Well, actually I was disagreeing with what I said I was disagreeing with, not with your non sequitur.

Your argument is predicated on there being a redundancy if a team has two very good C's, something history proves as being conclusively false. Whatever you'd like to unilaterally declare as the parameters of the topic, if it's based on a demonstrably false premise it's beside the point.

As for your side note, ehhhh I dunno.  Marner is probably the more attractive of the 2 compared with Nylander but unless you really sweetened the deal beyond him by adding, oh, say, Nylander haha hoho I don't think you are going to return a Norris type, which is what we are talking about when you plug in the name "Karlsson" into this thinkpiece.

Well gosh, how can I compete with "ehhh I dunno".

Chris Pronger got traded and the best young player the Oilers got in return was a 22 year old Joffrey Lupul. I think Marner stacks up.

 

[Guilt Trip]

If Matthews is genuinely going to throw a hissy fit because the Leafs want to improve the state of their team, then yeah I'm pretty sure I don't want him as the teams leader.

He won't.  Publicly.  And he may be OK with it privately.  But he might not.  There is a risk here, that's all.

Let's not try to pretend to know what Matthews wants. I will say this, if Matthews has indicated to the Leafs that he wants to be captain, then I don't offer it to JT. If being the captain is the deciding factor, well too bad then. This is Matthews' team, not JT's. Money aside, the chance for JT to play with our talented bunch up front and go for a cup is all he should need to come here. Who knows, maybe Babs' visit to the desert was about this scenario and to see what Matthews wanted.

 

[Kin]

Money aside, the chance for JT to play with our talented bunch up front and go for a cup is all he should need to come here.

The chance to play with talented forwards and have a chance for a cup seems to be something just about every team he's talking to will be able to offer him.

 

[Kin]

Well, it's happening:

https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/status/1011367273339150337

 

[Guilt Trip]

Here's a bunch of ifs.  If the Coyotes had an OK 1st line center and if the Leafs could sign sign Tavares I would be Ok with sending Matthews home for OEL and that 1st line center of their's.

Um, no. Matthews is 7 years younger and by all accounts a better player. Replacing Matthews with Tavares is a step backwards.
Tavares first 2 seasons...161gp  53g 68a...121pts  -31.....
Matthews....144gp  74g  58a...132pts  +27

 

[Guilt Trip]

Money aside, the chance for JT to play with our talented bunch up front and go for a cup is all he should need to come here.

The chance to play with talented forwards and have a chance for a cup seems to be something just about every team he's talking to will be able to offer him.

Dallas? Not really. NYI? No. Boston, yes but it isn't home. Leafs have the emotional attachment for being his fav team growing up.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/arashmadani/status/1011367273339150337

Here we gooooo

 

[Zee]

Here's a bunch of ifs.  If the Coyotes had an OK 1st line center and if the Leafs could sign sign Tavares I would be Ok with sending Matthews home for OEL and that 1st line center of their's.

What the hell we're trading Matthews now? I want my Tavares and I'm keeping Matthews, Marner and Nylander too. Cap be damned

 

[Kin]

Dallas? Not really.

Dallas had 92 points last year. Add Tavares and Heiskanen and they're definitely in the mix.

Boston, yes but it isn't home. Leafs have the emotional attachment for being his fav team growing up.

If the only thing the Leafs bring to the table is nostalgia then I'm pretty confident in saying he's not coming here.

 

[Zee]

If Matthews is genuinely going to throw a hissy fit because the Leafs want to improve the state of their team, then yeah I'm pretty sure I don't want him as the teams leader.

He won't.  Publicly.  And he may be OK with it privately.  But he might not.  There is a risk here, that's all.

Let's not try to pretend to know what Matthews wants. I will say this, if Matthews has indicated to the Leafs that he wants to be captain, then I don't offer it to JT. If being the captain is the deciding factor, well too bad then. This is Matthews' team, not JT's. Money aside, the chance for JT to play with our talented bunch up front and go for a cup is all he should need to come here. Who knows, maybe Babs' visit to the desert was about this scenario and to see what Matthews wanted.

I agree. Regardless of what we think about the capataincy and if it's important at all to players, it comes down to what the players think. If the Leafs have already talked to Matthews and he's on board with Tavares being offered the C than fine, if Mathews wants to be captain then it's his to take. He's the guy who ideally will be a star in the league for the next 10-12 years.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Dallas? Not really.

Dallas had 92 points last year. Add Tavares and Heiskanen and they're definitely in the mix.

Boston, yes but it isn't home. Leafs have the emotional attachment for being his fav team growing up.

If the only thing the Leafs bring to the table is nostalgia then I'm pretty confident in saying he's not coming here.

It's not the only thing but thx for coming out.

 

[Zee]

Dallas? Not really.

Dallas had 92 points last year. Add Tavares and Heiskanen and they're definitely in the mix.

Boston, yes but it isn't home. Leafs have the emotional attachment for being his fav team growing up.

If the only thing the Leafs bring to the table is nostalgia then I'm pretty confident in saying he's not coming here.

Leafs will have everything prepared, I'd expect nothing less from Dubas and Shanahan. Other things being equal, like salary and talent on the team, the nostalgia factor could put the Leafs over the top. Every team in the conversation could say they're close to being a true Cup contender, Leafs included, only the Leafs can sell the dream of winning for your home city, a team you cheered for as a kid. Add in the fact it would be the first team to do it in over 50+ years and it's truly something that could sway him.  Hockey is the #1 sport in Toronto, you can't say the same for Tampa, Boston,NY or Dallas. In Toronto a Cup would mean more to the city than all those other places who have baseball, football and basketball all seen as bigger accomplishments

 

[Kin]

Leafs will have everything prepared, I'd expect nothing less from Dubas and Shanahan. Other things being equal, like salary and talent on the team, the nostalgia factor could put the Leafs over the top. Every team in the conversation could say they're close to being a true Cup contender, Leafs included, only the Leafs can sell the dream of winning for your home city, a team you cheered for as a kid. Add in the fact it would be the first team to do it in over 50+ years and it's truly something that could sway him.  Hockey is the #1 sport in Toronto, you can't say the same for Tampa, Boston,NY or Dallas. In Toronto a Cup would mean more to the city than all those other places who have baseball, football and basketball all seen as bigger accomplishments

I think for the most part what you're talking about are meaningless abstractions or are things that are largely immaterial to hockey players. Additionally, as mentioned before, there are downsides to it being his home market and it's relative prominence with local media.

This is a hockey culture that routinely chides and shames players for desiring any sort of individual attention. Then, come free agent time, Leafs fans are all "BUT DON'T YOU WANT THE SPOTLIGHT?"

The end result? A pretty mediocre record in attracting free agents.

 

[Zee]

Leafs will have everything prepared, I'd expect nothing less from Dubas and Shanahan. Other things being equal, like salary and talent on the team, the nostalgia factor could put the Leafs over the top. Every team in the conversation could say they're close to being a true Cup contender, Leafs included, only the Leafs can sell the dream of winning for your home city, a team you cheered for as a kid. Add in the fact it would be the first team to do it in over 50+ years and it's truly something that could sway him.  Hockey is the #1 sport in Toronto, you can't say the same for Tampa, Boston,NY or Dallas. In Toronto a Cup would mean more to the city than all those other places who have baseball, football and basketball all seen as bigger accomplishments

I think for the most part what you're talking about are meaningless abstractions or are things that are largely immaterial to hockey players. Additionally, as mentioned before, there are downsides to it being his home market and it's relative prominence with local media.

This is a hockey culture that routinely chides and shames players for desiring any sort of individual attention. Then, come free agent time, Leafs fans are all "BUT DON'T YOU WANT THE SPOTLIGHT?"

The end result? A pretty mediocre record in attracting free agents.

In the past the Leafs weren't a desirable destination for free agents cause frankly they were a bad team with no homegrown talent they could point to and show the potential FA how life could be good here. Now they have that, so they're on even footing with other clubs making a pitch and selling the dream of playing for a contender. Money will be similar in all offers, tax havens notwithstanding, so you have to sell something a bit different. Toronto has that for a guy like Tavares. Whether or not he wants it is another question altogether.  I think they have to play the nostalgia card cause they're the only option that can.

 

[ZBBM]

If Matthews is genuinely going to throw a hissy fit because the Leafs want to improve the state of their team, then yeah I'm pretty sure I don't want him as the teams leader.

He won't.  Publicly.  And he may be OK with it privately.  But he might not.  There is a risk here, that's all.

Let's not try to pretend to know what Matthews wants. I will say this, if Matthews has indicated to the Leafs that he wants to be captain, then I don't offer it to JT. If being the captain is the deciding factor, well too bad then. This is Matthews' team, not JT's. Money aside, the chance for JT to play with our talented bunch up front and go for a cup is all he should need to come here. Who knows, maybe Babs' visit to the desert was about this scenario and to see what Matthews wanted.

If this concept has any validity at all, then that's just the problem.  If it doesn't, then there is none.  And as I said, we wouldn't know from Matthews' public pronouncements one way or the other.

 

[ZBBM]

https://twitter.com/arashmadani/status/1011367273339150337

Here we gooooo

It's like a getting an audience with one of the sheikhs in the Emirates.  Spine-tingling!

 

[Zee]

Apparently Lou has a chance to meet with Tavares right after the Leafs pitch. Lol. He probably specifically requested that slot.