hockeyfan1
New member
Patrick said:
Either that or he simply doesn't have "it".
The 2014-2015 Toronto Raptors Thread: Why Not Us?
- Thread starter Kin
- Start date
Either that or he simply doesn't have "it".
L K
Well-known member
I'm interested to hear Nik's take on how you fix this. I think it's pretty clear that Lowry and Amir are playing hurt. The problem for me is that Amir is always hurt and the coach didn't adjust the roster accordingly.
Do you bring Lou Williams back even though he's a defensive sieve and can shoot you out of a basketball game as quickly as he can get you into one?
Do you fire Casey or do you have to trade Valanciunas to try and find him a Tyson Chandler style big who he will actually play in crunch time?
Can you win with a team that relies on jump shots instead of penetration and ball movement?
Why bring in James Johnson to play defense and then not play him while you get killed by guards?
I'm having a hard time looking at the team...looking at the second half collapse and seeing something that has a lot of arguments for continuing to build in this manner.
Do you bring Lou Williams back even though he's a defensive sieve and can shoot you out of a basketball game as quickly as he can get you into one?
Do you fire Casey or do you have to trade Valanciunas to try and find him a Tyson Chandler style big who he will actually play in crunch time?
Can you win with a team that relies on jump shots instead of penetration and ball movement?
Why bring in James Johnson to play defense and then not play him while you get killed by guards?
I'm having a hard time looking at the team...looking at the second half collapse and seeing something that has a lot of arguments for continuing to build in this manner.
Kin
Active member
I don't know. I think much like the Leafs the Raptors have to take a good long look at their core and really question if they can ever take them to a place they want to go. I'm with you on James Johnson and Valanciunas, I really can't explain why Casey used them the way he did and Johnson especially as he seemed like a pretty natural fit to try and rein Pierce in a little.
If I had to guess I'd say that Casey gets fired and this core gets another year with a new coach to see if Valanciunas can grow to the point where he's a little bit more effective as an interior defender. I have to imagine that there'll be a hard push to add a legit starting 4 in the off season and there'll be a bit of an overhaul with the bench.
But honestly? It's pretty tough to watch what just happened and ever see a scenario where the Raps could hang with a team like the Spurs or Warriors. I don't like advocating a tank but that just might be where they are.
If I had to guess I'd say that Casey gets fired and this core gets another year with a new coach to see if Valanciunas can grow to the point where he's a little bit more effective as an interior defender. I have to imagine that there'll be a hard push to add a legit starting 4 in the off season and there'll be a bit of an overhaul with the bench.
But honestly? It's pretty tough to watch what just happened and ever see a scenario where the Raps could hang with a team like the Spurs or Warriors. I don't like advocating a tank but that just might be where they are.
Heroic Shrimp
Active member
So, who was the bigger disappointment this year, the Raptors or the Leafs? I find it kind of hard not to say the Raptors.
Kin
Active member
Heroic Shrimp said:
I guess it would have to be if you're using the most literal meaning of the word although I think they're really more or less the same. Once DeRozan got hurt and we got a really clear look at how "Jonas Valanciunas: Future All-Star" and "Terrence Ross: Future Decent Starter" were kind of pipe dreams I don't know that I expected a ton more from them than we got. Obviously the sweep hurts but I might contrast that to just how incredibly the Leafs fell off and...
Well, I guess what I'm saying is that I still think it'll be the Blue Jays.
hockeyfan1
New member
The Raptors looked tired, at times 'uninterested', out-of-sync, confused, disorganized.
Lowry with his injuries was excuseable up to a point, but not the technical fouls he incured. He seemed to overreact.
Somehow coach Casey either didn't come up with a good strategy, alternate strategy or didn't utilize key players properly. Also, the Raptors may have been too predictable (which is why there didn't seem to be any other ways of dealing the Wizards out there).
All in all, a huge disappointment not just on the basis of their being swept four straight but more on the fact of how it was done. Getting pummelled and outdone on virtually every statistic. These guys just couldn't shoot straight.
That, was the ultimate disappointment of them all.
Lowry with his injuries was excuseable up to a point, but not the technical fouls he incured. He seemed to overreact.
Somehow coach Casey either didn't come up with a good strategy, alternate strategy or didn't utilize key players properly. Also, the Raptors may have been too predictable (which is why there didn't seem to be any other ways of dealing the Wizards out there).
All in all, a huge disappointment not just on the basis of their being swept four straight but more on the fact of how it was done. Getting pummelled and outdone on virtually every statistic. These guys just couldn't shoot straight.
That, was the ultimate disappointment of them all.
hockeyfan1
New member
This article was written before the Raptors were eliminated, but it addresses the differences between the two teams, the problems the Raptors have including the issues they face:
- Among the issues:
The Raptors were one of the weakest rebounding teams in the NBA, ranking 24th out of 30 in defensive rebound percentage, and they rank 12th among the 16 teams in the playoffs in the same category and 16th in overall rebounding efficiency.
The Raptors passed the ball less and with less efficiency than nearly every team in the NBA during the regular season and are last in the playoffs so far with just 255 passes a game and they rank 13th out of 16 teams with points from assists in the playoffs.
That lack of passing means tougher shots for those expected to take them. In the regular season Kyle Lowry, DeRozan and Williams were the only trio of teammates in the NBA to take at least 11 shots a game while shooting less than 42 percent from the field. Only 12 players in the entire league took at least 11 shots at that rate while playing at least 2,000 minutes this season and three of them were on Toronto.
The trend has continued against Washington as Lowry, DeRozan and Williams have taken 149 shots ? compared to 122 for the rest of the team ? and shot just 32.2 percent, compared to 51.6 for the remaining seven players.
The playoffs may be about adjustments and the Raptors have talked about the need for their primary scorers to make plays for their teammates, but it hasn?t happened yet and might not.
..."No matter how many shots we take or not, they?re shots we normally take and we work on and our teammates are going to say nothing about it because if they shoot 20 times we aren?t going to say nothing about it. At the end of the day, if I make five more shots, no one says nothing."
...the Wizards...They?ve maintained their top-five defensive status they earned in the regular season...offensive efficiency has improved ? they are averaging 311 passes a game, up from 302 and their offensive rating has jumped from 101 to 106 ? and they?ve played with a smaller lineup.
The Raptors...look pretty much the same only they are passing even less ? 281 per game in the regular season compared with 255 in the playoffs. The Raptors offensive rating of 108.1 was third best in the regular season and has cratered to 94 against the Wizards, 12th among the 16 playoff teams.
The difference ? as Paul Pierce pointed after Game 3 ? is that in the playoffs teams have two days to make game plans and only one team to prepare for. In the regular season teams simply aren?t as locked in. "They wing it," Pierce said.
"We?re locked in, we?re more focused. Sometimes, you?re going to have your mental lapses. The young guys are young. A lot of them don?t have kids, so they have good times on the road. They go out, party sometimes. That?s the way it is. I was a young guy, did those things. Sometimes, you?re not locked in the whole 82."
...the Raptors are the victims, unable to either find success with their methods from the regular season or make the alterations required to forge a new path.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/win-or-lose-raptors-need-to-answer-tough-questions/
- Among the issues:
The Raptors were one of the weakest rebounding teams in the NBA, ranking 24th out of 30 in defensive rebound percentage, and they rank 12th among the 16 teams in the playoffs in the same category and 16th in overall rebounding efficiency.
The Raptors passed the ball less and with less efficiency than nearly every team in the NBA during the regular season and are last in the playoffs so far with just 255 passes a game and they rank 13th out of 16 teams with points from assists in the playoffs.
That lack of passing means tougher shots for those expected to take them. In the regular season Kyle Lowry, DeRozan and Williams were the only trio of teammates in the NBA to take at least 11 shots a game while shooting less than 42 percent from the field. Only 12 players in the entire league took at least 11 shots at that rate while playing at least 2,000 minutes this season and three of them were on Toronto.
The trend has continued against Washington as Lowry, DeRozan and Williams have taken 149 shots ? compared to 122 for the rest of the team ? and shot just 32.2 percent, compared to 51.6 for the remaining seven players.
The playoffs may be about adjustments and the Raptors have talked about the need for their primary scorers to make plays for their teammates, but it hasn?t happened yet and might not.
..."No matter how many shots we take or not, they?re shots we normally take and we work on and our teammates are going to say nothing about it because if they shoot 20 times we aren?t going to say nothing about it. At the end of the day, if I make five more shots, no one says nothing."
...the Wizards...They?ve maintained their top-five defensive status they earned in the regular season...offensive efficiency has improved ? they are averaging 311 passes a game, up from 302 and their offensive rating has jumped from 101 to 106 ? and they?ve played with a smaller lineup.
The Raptors...look pretty much the same only they are passing even less ? 281 per game in the regular season compared with 255 in the playoffs. The Raptors offensive rating of 108.1 was third best in the regular season and has cratered to 94 against the Wizards, 12th among the 16 playoff teams.
The difference ? as Paul Pierce pointed after Game 3 ? is that in the playoffs teams have two days to make game plans and only one team to prepare for. In the regular season teams simply aren?t as locked in. "They wing it," Pierce said.
"We?re locked in, we?re more focused. Sometimes, you?re going to have your mental lapses. The young guys are young. A lot of them don?t have kids, so they have good times on the road. They go out, party sometimes. That?s the way it is. I was a young guy, did those things. Sometimes, you?re not locked in the whole 82."
...the Raptors are the victims, unable to either find success with their methods from the regular season or make the alterations required to forge a new path.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/win-or-lose-raptors-need-to-answer-tough-questions/
L K
Well-known member
Nik the Trik said:
Casey was regarded as a defensive coach. We were one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Casey openly endorses that he allows the players to do what they want on offense as a reward for defensive effort. There was no defensive effort this year (especially in the 2nd half of the year) and he didn't reign in an offense that focused on isolation plays and contested jumpers from inefficient guards. He routinely used stupid lineups like Lowry-Vasquez-Williams and then would watch the team get killed on the defensive glass and do nothing about it. The team isn't a great team in terms of winning an NBA championship but I really don't see Casey making this team better than they can be. I think he makes it worse.
He hasn't developed anything out of Valanciunas/Ross during his time in Toronto. We had Caboclo and BeBe sit on the bench or bounce around on NBDL teams that didn't want to play them because they weren't their prospects.
This is just downright awful.
Coco-puffs
New member
L K said:
I think you are over-reacting. I'd agree with Michael Grange on this one:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/raptors-arent-good-enough-to-get-a-coach-fired/
Coco-puffs said:
I dunno, that seems like the same reasoning Carlye-supporters used at times. There's nothing stopping Ujiri from firing the coach and making changes to the roster, just like the Leafs are doing now.
Coco-puffs
New member
CarltonTheBear said:
Touche. I think the roster is going to see quite a few changes this offseason- lots of expiring contracts off the books this year and most players aren't signed for more than two more years. Not sure they need to make a coaching change to see a different team next year. Players under contract next season:
Lowry (thru '16/17- player option for '17/18)
DeRozan (thru '15/16- player option for '16/17)
Vasquez (thru '15/16)
Patterson (thru '16/'17)
Valanciunas (thru '15/16- RFA after that)
Ross (thru '15/16- RFA after that)
J. Johnson (thru '15/16)
Nogiera (signed thru '17/18, last two years are team options, RFA after that)
Caboclo (signed thru '17/18, last two years are team options, RFA after that)
They have plenty of cap space to work with as well.
L K
Well-known member
Coco-puffs said:
This isn't really all that young of a team. It's also just a standard Toronto media trend now to defend the coach in spite of clear issues as they don't want to be seen a pro-player. He makes extremely questionable lineup decisions. His rotations are poor. The team gets beat by the same strategy every game and no adjustments are made. He's not coaching.
Coco-puffs
New member
L K said:
I generally don't agree. Lineup decisions and rotations... please tell me how else you would have deployed this roster differently and why it would have resulted any better?
Same strategy? Yes, they get killed on the pick and roll and generally over-helping leaving wide open shots. Over-helping generally begins with poor perimeter defence and the Raptors were un-done by poor perimeter defence since January (especially with Lowry not playing 100%- even DeRozan returned and wasn't the same player he was defensively prior to his injury). Without strong interior defence and shot blocking to compensate, they weren't going to do much better at adjusting. In my opinion, the Raptors STOPPED executing defensively in January and they kept saying to the media that they could flip the switch come playoff time. Clearly, they were stuck in their bad habits, and I don't think it was the coach that got them into that- it was the players.
Look around the league, most teams run pick and roll and move the ball around well during over-help because it WORKS. The best teams just don't get killed by it as regularly as the Raptors have since January both because they have better players (IMO) and they continue to execute what they need to defensively throughout the season.
Casey led this team, full of flaws, to two straight franchise record setting seasons by getting the team to try and focus on defence. Nobody saw that coming. That the team came back down to earth after an amazing stretch during the 2014 calendar year is no surprise to me, considering how aloof the team seemed to become because they were pretty good offensively. The main beef I had with Casey is that he couldn't get the team to move the ball better offensively. He specifically stated in his end of season presser that he wished he harped on them more to take less quick shots, take less ISO shots, and move the ball more. I don't think Casey should be fired because of that. IMO, he gets one more year to see if improvement can come, hopefully with an improved roster.
Comparing to the Leafs: Carlyle got the absolute most he could have gotten out of the Leafs during his tenure (in terms of wins). It was just a flawed group of players that progressively got worse under Nonis' direction (Clarkson and Bolland instead of Grabovski, Kulemin, MacArthur???? Not saying some of that wasn't Carlyle's fault though). His advanced stats were poor because they were generally cheating for offence and collapsing on defence to try and limit chances to the outside. Horachek came in and we saw that when they adjusted to try and posses the puck more, it actually strangled an offence that could only score by cheating and exposed them defensively as not good enough to play more "win the puck battle and hold on to it out of your own end" defence/transition.
IMO, the major BAD thing Carlyle ever did was make this team look better than the sum of its parts. That said, I never thought he would be the right coach in the new possession-oriented NHL anyways, so I wanted him gone much sooner.
Heroic Shrimp
Active member
L K said:
Hey, it worked with Carlyle and the Leafs, didn't it?