The Official 2013 MLB Thread

[Derk]

Yes, and how he chose to act on his feelings says a lot about him as a person.

I'd say that the fact that he decided to stay with the team and in the city where he's grown to be so popular despite the fact that he clearly felt put off by his interactions with management say a good deal more about him as a person than a few statements to the media.

Coming out in the media like he did makes him sound ungrateful.

Again, I have absolutely no idea to whom you think he should feel or show gratitude. Cincinnati didn't give him a contract out of charity, they did it because they wanted his services. Phillips is an all-star, he could have gone elsewhere and probably for more money.

Why do you think he needs to feel or show gratitude to someone else? People can feel genuine gratitude for the good things they have in life. For example, I am grateful that I have my health and make enough money to put food on the table, etc. He would probably garner more sympathy if the dollar amounts weren't in the range they are in. 

 

[Kin]

Why do you think he needs to feel or show gratitude to someone else? People can feel genuine gratitude for the good things they have in life.

I don't see how this precludes that though. I'm grateful for the things you mentioned but I still complain about other things when I'm frustrated.

He would probably garner more sympathy if the dollar amounts weren't in the range they are in.

I don't think he's looking for sympathy, I think he's speaking honestly. I'd rather athletes speak honestly even if it's not exactly what I'd want them to say over trite cliches.

 

[Peter D.]

Then what's the point of him saying that the team went out and signed Votto before him?

That they made re-signing Votto, who had two years remaining on his deal, more of a priority than him.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[Kin]

I don't see anything wrong with that.

Ok, but that's pretty easy to say when it's a situation that doesn't involve you in anyway.

Regardless I don't think you have to agree with Phillips here. He just didn't like the way the situation played out. He said as much. There's nothing inherently good or bad about that.

 

[Derk]

Why do you think he needs to feel or show gratitude to someone else? People can feel genuine gratitude for the good things they have in life.

I don't see how this precludes that though. I'm grateful for the things you mentioned but I still complain about other things when I'm frustrated.

He would probably garner more sympathy if the dollar amounts weren't in the range they are in.

I don't think he's looking for sympathy, I think he's speaking honestly. I'd rather athletes speak honestly even if it's not exactly what I'd want them to say over trite cliches.

It doesn't preclude it. You are right, we complain all the time. Often we sound, or feel, ungrateful at times - that is human nature, as you've said.

And yes, speaking honestly sometimes means people won't agree with what you have said - I think that's the case here. You and I seem to differ on what we are taking from what he has said. 

 

[Kin]

It doesn't preclude it. You are right, we complain all the time. Often we sound, or feel, ungrateful at times - that is human nature, as you've said.

But when I hear people say "I'm unhappy with X" or whatever I don't think that they've stopped being grateful that they don't have a deadly illness or that their house burned down. You can maintain that sort of base level of gratitude towards life and still have legitimate issues elsewhere.

And yes, speaking honestly sometimes means people won't agree with what you have said - I think that's the case here. You and I seem to differ on what we are taking from what he has said.

But there's disagreeing with what Philips said on a substantive level, thinking that the Reds should have prioritized Votto and held firm on what they were offering Philips, and thinking that it makes him look like a bad or ungrateful person.

 

[Peter D.]

Ok, but that's pretty easy to say when it's a situation that doesn't involve you in anyway.

Regardless I don't think you have to agree with Phillips here. He just didn't like the way the situation played out. He said as much. There's nothing inherently good or bad about that.

Contextually, sure, there is some credence to his viewpoint.  Even though I believe the timing and other factors don't line up.

 

[Champ Kind]

I think the root of the criticism is how out of touch some athletes are.  Add, I guess, who can blame them?  They spend the better part of the year with other young, healthy millionaires.  I suppose what we look at as privilage and being all-around awesome, they see as (relatively) mundane and normal.  So while the majority of us think "the nerve of this guy, complaining about $70 million", they see it as a workplace complaint, which is something we all likely partake in at some point.

 

[Kin]

I think the root of the criticism is how out of touch some athletes are.  Add, I guess, who can blame them?  They spend the better part of the year with other young, healthy millionaires.  I suppose what we look at as privilage and being all-around awesome, they see as (relatively) mundane and normal.  So while the majority of us think "the nerve of this guy, complaining about $70 million", they see it as a workplace complaint, which is something we all likely partake in at some point.

I don't think the problem has anything to do with the athletes. It has to do with the fact that we have an entirely schizophrenic set of expectations of athletes. We don't want them to be obsessed by money but we want them to filter every single thought they have through the fact that they're rich. We call them greedy jerks if they leave one team for another because of money but get apoplectic if they leave one team for another despite their "home" team offering them more.

I mean I hate to sound cynical but when people say that Athletes seem overly self-centered or obsessed with money it sounds like they're the opposite of out of touch.

 

[Kin]

Ryan Braun suspended for 65 games as a result of his involvement with the Biogenesis lab:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9500252/ryan-braun-milwaukee-brewers-suspended-remainder-2013-season

He's announced he won't contest it which makes people think this was a deal he reached with the league. I still think the league is shooting itself in the foot with regards to pretending that steroids aren't just another in a long line of steps of medical science improving the game but...heck, it seems to work for some.

 

[bustaheims]

Ryan Braun suspended for 65 games as a result of his involvement with the Biogenesis lab:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9500252/ryan-braun-milwaukee-brewers-suspended-remainder-2013-season

He's announced he won't contest it which makes people think this was a deal he reached with the league. I still think the league is shooting itself in the foot with regards to pretending that steroids aren't just another in a long line of steps of medical science improving the game but...heck, it seems to work for some.

I disagree. It would be one thing if this type of usage of steroids was legal for the general population but not for athletes, but, they're illegal for everyone. I don't think the league is shooting itself in the foot for holding its players to the more than reasonable standard of obeying the laws of the country in which they are employed.

 

[Kin]

I disagree. It would be one thing if this type of usage of steroids was legal for the general population but not for athletes, but, they're illegal for everyone. I don't think the league is shooting itself in the foot for holding its players to the more than reasonable standard of obeying the laws of the country in which they are employed.

Except I'd argue that's clearly not the standard that they're being held to. MLB doesn't have a policy where players receive massive suspensions for drunk driving or hitting their wife or failing to pay child support despite the fact that those things are just as illegal. This is a policy related to the concept of having a competitive advantage.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Then there's nothing for him to complain about.

So because he ultimately didn't want to uproot his family and leave the city he lived in there's no reason for him to feel his contract negotiations went badly or that the team didn't treat him well?

There's a fine line between sounding 'selfish' and complaining.

 

[Derk]

I think the root of the criticism is how out of touch some athletes are.  Add, I guess, who can blame them?  They spend the better part of the year with other young, healthy millionaires.  I suppose what we look at as privilage and being all-around awesome, they see as (relatively) mundane and normal.  So while the majority of us think "the nerve of this guy, complaining about $70 million", they see it as a workplace complaint, which is something we all likely partake in at some point.

I don't think the problem has anything to do with the athletes. It has to do with the fact that we have an entirely schizophrenic set of expectations of athletes. We don't want them to be obsessed by money but we want them to filter every single thought they have through the fact that they're rich. We call them greedy jerks if they leave one team for another because of money but get apoplectic if they leave one team for another despite their "home" team offering them more.

I mean I hate to sound cynical but when people say that Athletes seem overly self-centered or obsessed with money it sounds like they're the opposite of out of touch.

Schizophrenic, nice.  I suppose when looked at as a whole, the reaction of a large group of people would come across as such. You could probably expand that to just about any topic that people have opinions on.

I think a lot of average people don't like listening to multi-millionaires complain about money, because they will struggle in their lives to make a fraction of what he makes in a part of a single season. What is so difficult to understand about that?

 

[Kin]

I think a lot of average people don't like listening to multi-millionaires complain about money, because they will struggle in their lives to make a fraction of what he makes in a part of a single season. What is so difficult to understand about that?

But I think that sort of speaks to what I'm saying. Phillips isn't "complaining about money". The article you quote has a headline of "Brandon Phillips calls his $72.5 million contract a ?slap in the face?" which is flat-out untrue but it's presented as such because, contrary to your point, I think people love reading stuff like that because it lets them vent their own frustrations. Phillips is taking issue with the way the Reds handled his negotiations vs. the way they handled Votto's. He felt lied to. No amount of money makes someone like getting lied to. In the article he emphatically says that how he feels is filtered through the fact that he's still making a great deal of money.

So it's not average people upset with him complaining about money, it's average people who just don't want to hear Brandon Phillips express any feelings about his life other than cliched pleasantries because everyone is so obsessed with money and what other people have in their pockets that they think it should override basic concepts of fairness and decency. Me? I was always taught that counting other people's money is rude and that, you know, people who make a ton of money still probably hate their co-workers or don't want to wake up on monday mornings and that I shouldn't be bitter about their expressing that just because I'm jealous of the money they make.

 

[Derk]

But I think that sort of speaks to what I'm saying. Phillips isn't "complaining about money". The article you quote has a headline of "Brandon Phillips calls his $72.5 million contract a ?slap in the face?" which is flat-out untrue but it's presented as such because, contrary to your point, I think people love reading stuff like that because it lets them vent their own frustrations. Phillips is taking issue with the way the Reds handled his negotiations vs. the way they handled Votto's. He felt lied to. No amount of money makes someone like getting lied to. In the article he emphatically says that how he feels is filtered through the fact that he's still making a great deal of money.

Just because he thinks he was lied to doesn't mean he was - who knows what sorts of business decisions had to be made, how talent was evaluated, etc. Say what you want about it being untrue, but money was still the root of the dispute and that's what people are going to see.

So it's not average people upset with him complaining about money, it's average people who just don't want to hear Brandon Phillips express any feelings about his life other than cliched pleasantries because everyone is so obsessed with money and what other people have in their pockets that they think it should override basic concepts of fairness and decency. Me? I was always taught that counting other people's money is rude and that, you know, people who make a ton of money still probably hate their co-workers or don't want to wake up on monday mornings and that I shouldn't be bitter about their expressing that just because I'm jealous of the money they make.

I like how you stand up and speak for average people, and as one of those average people, presume to tell me what I am really thinking. I also disagree with your assessment. There are many levels of fairness and decency on many topics, and while you are arguing on behalf of the athlete, I am arguing that it would be more decent to keep this particular dispute private. There are plenty of other things that he can (and has) made public that are more than the cliched pleasantries you seem to find so dull.

Counting other people's money, eh? More like someone trying to tell anyone who will listen about their money.

I really enjoy reading the veiled insults in your posts - you really have a way with words. I realized right up front that it would be futile even discussing this with you. Words don't come to me as easily or quickly as they seem to for you (I won't say you are lucky to have that skill, because obviously you have worked hard at it) and your posts seem to evolve into long diatribes. While this has been a fun discussion (sort of), I have other things to do. I will more than likely pop back in, but I don't expect to get as deeply involved.

 

[Champ Kind]

No amount of money makes someone like getting lied to.

Nik, I know this sentence was presented within a larger context, but I absolutely disagree with it.

Don't forget the immortal words of the 'Million Dollar Man'...

 

[Kin]

No amount of money makes someone like getting lied to.

Nik, I know this sentence was presented within a larger context, but I absolutely disagree with it.

Don't forget the immortal words of the 'Million Dollar Man'...

Yeah, but didn't he renounce his frivolous big-money ways and get really big into Christianity? Money and a big shiny gold and diamond belt weren't enough for him in the end.

 

[Corn Flake]

No amount of money makes someone like getting lied to.

Nik, I know this sentence was presented within a larger context, but I absolutely disagree with it.

Don't forget the immortal words of the 'Million Dollar Man'...

Yeah, but didn't he renounce his frivolous big-money ways and get really big into Christianity? Money and a big shiny gold and diamond belt weren't enough for him in the end.

Looks like he's settled into church life nicely...

"DiBiase is now a Christian minister. In 1999, he founded Heart of David Ministry."

He still appears in some wrestling events from time to time, according to Wikipedia.

 

[hockeyfan1]

I think a lot of average people don't like listening to multi-millionaires complain about money, because they will struggle in their lives to make a fraction of what he makes in a part of a single season. What is so difficult to understand about that?

But I think that sort of speaks to what I'm saying. Phillips isn't "complaining about money". The article you quote has a headline of "Brandon Phillips calls his $72.5 million contract a ?slap in the face?" which is flat-out untrue but it's presented as such because, contrary to your point, I think people love reading stuff like that because it lets them vent their own frustrations. Phillips is taking issue with the way the Reds handled his negotiations vs. the way they handled Votto's. He felt lied to. No amount of money makes someone like getting lied to. In the article he emphatically says that how he feels is filtered through the fact that he's still making a great deal of money.

So it's not average people upset with him complaining about money, it's average people who just don't want to hear Brandon Phillips express any feelings about his life other than cliched pleasantries because everyone is so obsessed with money and what other people have in their pockets that they think it should override basic concepts of fairness and decency. Me? I was always taught that counting other people's money is rude and that, you know, people who make a ton of money still probably hate their co-workers or don't want to wake up on monday mornings and that I shouldn't be bitter about their expressing that just because I'm jealous of the money they make.

Sometimes it's the thought that counts,  more than the gesture.

For example, let's say a friend wins the lottery, in the range of one or two million dollars, comes to you all in a celebratory mood, all excited, and you offer to buy some refreshments (some sweets, a coffee for yourself, and the friend requests a Cappucino), let's just say.
Now, the friend offers to reimburse you, you thank him or her for their offer but say that you'll pay instead.

The thought here is what counts. The attitude was more important than the fact.  The fact of the matter is that the person became wealthier by way of a lottery win, but their attitude was such that the person remained humble and gracious by his/her having offered to pay the tab for the refreshment.

Brandon Philips' attitude at first glance is a turn-off considering the fact that he just became 72 million dollars richer.

Thinking about his complaint and having re-read the article, I was thinking another issue of why Philips was ticked off with the way Reds management  handled his contract negotiations.  Race.  Could it be, and Philips did not speak of this, but could it just be that in Philips conscience, because he is an African-American (black) and Votto is an Italo-Canadian (white), that the better treatment was given Votto?

I don't mean to cause a conversational firestorm on racial issues nor to offend anyone, but could it be the real reason behind Philips' 'anger', with him actually not speaking of it, of course?