Van Riemsdyk Being Mentioned

[Corn Flake]

What if a Van Reimsdyk deal is a precursor to a bigger deal?  In that it allows him to trade a Kulemin or a MacArthur? 

If that's the case though, why make the deal?  It's not like this roster still needs to be completely overhauled.  I guess if the sum of the parts coming in is greater than the sum of the parts going out then it makes sense, but what if it screws up the team chemistry?

While I agree you don't want to tarnish what they have, is what they have capable of truly doing damage in the East in the playoffs?  Not really, IMO.  They could surprise but they aren't contenders.

Thinking long-term, moves and/or time are still needed to get this team where it needs to be.  I don't think you can look at the good camaraderie this team has and allow that to take priority over the right trades to take it to the next level.

 

[rdowdall]

What if a Van Reimsdyk deal is a precursor to a bigger deal?  In that it allows him to trade a Kulemin or a MacArthur? 

If that's the case though, why make the deal?  It's not like this roster still needs to be completely overhauled.  I guess if the sum of the parts coming in is greater than the sum of the parts going out then it makes sense, but what if it screws up the team chemistry?

While I agree you don't want to tarnish what they have, is what they have capable of truly doing damage in the East in the playoffs?  Not really, IMO.  They could surprise but they aren't contenders.

Thinking long-term, moves and/or time are still needed to get this team where it needs to be.  I don't think you can look at the good camaraderie this team has and allow that to take priority over the right trades to take it to the next level.

I agree that you always wanting to be moving forward and trying to build the best team that you can, but I worry that if too much is done this year then it may screw up a chance to make the playoffs.  While they may go out in the first round, making the playoffs would give some experience to this young team.

 

[Zee]

What if a Van Reimsdyk deal is a precursor to a bigger deal?  In that it allows him to trade a Kulemin or a MacArthur? 

If that's the case though, why make the deal?  It's not like this roster still needs to be completely overhauled.  I guess if the sum of the parts coming in is greater than the sum of the parts going out then it makes sense, but what if it screws up the team chemistry?

While I agree you don't want to tarnish what they have, is what they have capable of truly doing damage in the East in the playoffs?  Not really, IMO.  They could surprise but they aren't contenders.

Thinking long-term, moves and/or time are still needed to get this team where it needs to be.  I don't think you can look at the good camaraderie this team has and allow that to take priority over the right trades to take it to the next level.

I agree that you always wanting to be moving forward and trying to build the best team that you can, but I worry that if too much is done this year then it may screw up a chance to make the playoffs.  While they may go out in the first round, making the playoffs would give some experience to this young team.

I think Burke realizes the current team has some good chemistry going and won't screw with the core of the lineup too much.  I see him putting together a package of players that make sense.  Would the team be totally devastated if one of Schenn or MacArthur or Kulemin goes together with a package of some younger guys?  Probably not.  If he suddenly trades 2-3 guys off the current roster then maybe you have an issue.

 

[Corn Flake]

What if a Van Reimsdyk deal is a precursor to a bigger deal?  In that it allows him to trade a Kulemin or a MacArthur? 

If that's the case though, why make the deal?  It's not like this roster still needs to be completely overhauled.  I guess if the sum of the parts coming in is greater than the sum of the parts going out then it makes sense, but what if it screws up the team chemistry?

While I agree you don't want to tarnish what they have, is what they have capable of truly doing damage in the East in the playoffs?  Not really, IMO.  They could surprise but they aren't contenders.

Thinking long-term, moves and/or time are still needed to get this team where it needs to be.  I don't think you can look at the good camaraderie this team has and allow that to take priority over the right trades to take it to the next level.

I agree that you always wanting to be moving forward and trying to build the best team that you can, but I worry that if too much is done this year then it may screw up a chance to make the playoffs.  While they may go out in the first round, making the playoffs would give some experience to this young team.

I think Burke realizes the current team has some good chemistry going and won't screw with the core of the lineup too much.  I see him putting together a package of players that make sense.  Would the team be totally devastated if one of Schenn or MacArthur or Kulemin goes together with a package of some younger guys?  Probably not.  If he suddenly trades 2-3 guys off the current roster then maybe you have an issue.

I think you maintain the chemistry by continuing to acquire players with the right character and attitude, and maybe also generally staying within the same age range as the rest of the team as well. 

Getzlaf would fit the framework from everything I have ever heard about the guy.  Actually, I think Phaneuf would help him out of his funk as it seems Getzlaf is taking criticism for being a bit disinterested and Dion seems to be quite adept at getting guys going.

Whether it is Phaneuf's leadership or a lot more than that, you see guys like Lupul and Kessel, well known for consistency issues and going quiet for very long stretches both putting up some of the most consistent numbers in the league this year... it makes you think the right buttons are being pushed from all angles.

Getzlaf would be a benefit to the chemistry and also probably greatly benefit from it.

 

[sneakyray]

What if a Van Reimsdyk deal is a precursor to a bigger deal?  In that it allows him to trade a Kulemin or a MacArthur? 

If that's the case though, why make the deal?  It's not like this roster still needs to be completely overhauled.  I guess if the sum of the parts coming in is greater than the sum of the parts going out then it makes sense, but what if it screws up the team chemistry?

While I agree you don't want to tarnish what they have, is what they have capable of truly doing damage in the East in the playoffs?  Not really, IMO.  They could surprise but they aren't contenders.

Thinking long-term, moves and/or time are still needed to get this team where it needs to be.  I don't think you can look at the good camaraderie this team has and allow that to take priority over the right trades to take it to the next level.

I agree that you always wanting to be moving forward and trying to build the best team that you can, but I worry that if too much is done this year then it may screw up a chance to make the playoffs.  While they may go out in the first round, making the playoffs would give some experience to this young team.

I think Burke realizes the current team has some good chemistry going and won't screw with the core of the lineup too much.  I see him putting together a package of players that make sense.  Would the team be totally devastated if one of Schenn or MacArthur or Kulemin goes together with a package of some younger guys?  Probably not.  If he suddenly trades 2-3 guys off the current roster then maybe you have an issue.

but is chemistry that big of a deal for this team?  the first line has been playing musical centres all year, guys have been in and out of the lineup with injuries.  Think about all of the players that have been in and out of the lineup this year...in fact only 3 players have played every game and some pretty bigtime players have missed time yet we are still in a playoff spot and on a 4 game win streak to boot.

actually I think that this team could be better if certain players clicked better (think of all the presents lombardi shanked from kadri in the detroit game)

in my opinion 2-3 players off of this roster is not going to kill this team, especially if they are getting a major piece back.

 

[Zee]

The bottom line for me is, Burke put this team together (along with help from all his advisors Nonis etc) and he's not about to suddenly screw it up.  This is all part of his long term vision.  He's stock piled young assets, build a good core currently, and is now looking to get better.  I have full trust in whatever trades he's contemplating.  I'm glad he's our GM and not a nutjob like Gauthier.

 

[Corn Flake]

What if a Van Reimsdyk deal is a precursor to a bigger deal?  In that it allows him to trade a Kulemin or a MacArthur? 

If that's the case though, why make the deal?  It's not like this roster still needs to be completely overhauled.  I guess if the sum of the parts coming in is greater than the sum of the parts going out then it makes sense, but what if it screws up the team chemistry?

While I agree you don't want to tarnish what they have, is what they have capable of truly doing damage in the East in the playoffs?  Not really, IMO.  They could surprise but they aren't contenders.

Thinking long-term, moves and/or time are still needed to get this team where it needs to be.  I don't think you can look at the good camaraderie this team has and allow that to take priority over the right trades to take it to the next level.

I agree that you always wanting to be moving forward and trying to build the best team that you can, but I worry that if too much is done this year then it may screw up a chance to make the playoffs.  While they may go out in the first round, making the playoffs would give some experience to this young team.

I think Burke realizes the current team has some good chemistry going and won't screw with the core of the lineup too much.  I see him putting together a package of players that make sense.  Would the team be totally devastated if one of Schenn or MacArthur or Kulemin goes together with a package of some younger guys?  Probably not.  If he suddenly trades 2-3 guys off the current roster then maybe you have an issue.

but is chemistry that big of a deal for this team?  the first line has been playing musical centres all year, guys have been in and out of the lineup with injuries.  Think about all of the players that have been in and out of the lineup this year...in fact only 3 players have played every game and some pretty bigtime players have missed time yet we are still in a playoff spot and on a 4 game win streak to boot.

actually I think that this team could be better if certain players clicked better (think of all the presents lombardi shanked from kadri in the detroit game)

in my opinion 2-3 players off of this roster is not going to kill this team, especially if they are getting a major piece back.

Its the off-ice chemistry that is the concern.

You can bring in one guy who is a total headcase or thinks he's god's gift to the team and it can throw things off pretty fast.  Or, you bring in some grizzled veteran leader type who thinks Phaneuf is annoying and starts to push him for leadership, then you create a rift.  Or as Burke likes to say guys with "Blue and White Disease" who fluff their way through practice, etc. 

It doesn't take much to throw off a well balanced team.

Its a very different context, but look at what a mess the Corson thing was.  If that happened to a young team like this it would collapse in a matter of weeks.

 

[rdowdall]

The bottom line for me is, Burke put this team together (along with help from all his advisors Nonis etc) and he's not about to suddenly screw it up.  This is all part of his long term vision.  He's stock piled young assets, build a good core currently, and is now looking to get better.  I have full trust in whatever trades he's contemplating.  I'm glad he's our GM and not a nutjob like Gauthier.

I like Burke too, but I also liked Fletcher (the first time around), and he got to the point where he did too much changing and it destroyed the team.  The year he brought in guys like Hogue, Ridley, and Muller all in one year was really the start of the downfall for a team that had been pretty good the previous two years. 

I will admit, I am not much of a JVR.  I'm not sure why.

 

[Champ Kind]

The bottom line for me is, Burke put this team together (along with help from all his advisors Nonis etc) and he's not about to suddenly screw it up.  This is all part of his long term vision.  He's stock piled young assets, build a good core currently, and is now looking to get better.  I have full trust in whatever trades he's contemplating.  I'm glad he's our GM and not a nutjob like Gauthier.

For me, you nailed it with this post, Zee.  I also think that with what is arguably the best front office in the NHL all options and scenarios are being explored.  I have faith that whatever deal happens will benefit the Leafs in both the near and long term. 

 

[bustaheims]

I don't know if he's struggling that much. He is a +7. His ice time is down, but that may just be the result of the team having 6+ defensemen that can play.

That's the way I look at it. The depth and the makeup of the blueline has changed, so the team doesn't need to rely on Schenn for 20+ minutes a game anymore.

 

[Erndog]

If in fact the Leafs are looking to move a Dman, I think the fact that Liles is hurt has put that on hold for the time being.

I wouldnt expect any sort of move from the Leafs until JML comes back and shows he is healthy.  Then again, who knows.

 

[Zee]

If in fact the Leafs are looking to move a Dman, I think the fact that Liles is hurt has put that on hold for the time being.

I wouldnt expect any sort of move from the Leafs until JML comes back and shows he is healthy.  Then again, who knows.

Komisarek is back and Franson seems to have found a groove so i'm not so sure.  They already have Phaneuf, Gunnarson as the 2 main guys, they're in a position of strength even without JML.

 

[Erndog]

If in fact the Leafs are looking to move a Dman, I think the fact that Liles is hurt has put that on hold for the time being.

I wouldnt expect any sort of move from the Leafs until JML comes back and shows he is healthy.  Then again, who knows.

Komisarek is back and Franson seems to have found a groove so i'm not so sure.  They already have Phaneuf, Gunnarson as the 2 main guys, they're in a position of strength even without JML.

I know, but you know how these things tend to work.  We trade a dman and the next game someone gets hurt and suddenly we're fragile back there.  Especially considering Aulie/Gardiner haven't really cemented a spot.

 

[ZBBM]

I would just comment that any concerns about messing with the chemistry of the team are overblown.  We are a few games over .500 and have a modest win streak going.  There is plenty of room to improve this squad, "chemistry" notwithstanding.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

A few random thoughts on the potential of a one for one JVR/L. Schenn trade:

I remember reading an article about the development time of players based on size when Joe Thornton and Sergei Samsonov were both drafted by Boston in the first round.  The author produce a a lot of evidence that clubs need to be patient with the bigger guys, because they took longer to figure out how to use their size, while the smaller players tended to rely on speed.   

In the first few years after the draft, many fans and media thought that Samsonov was the better player; now it is clear that Thornton is head and shoulders (pun intended) above Samsonov.  I believe that JVR still has a lot of upside and may develop into an elite forward. 

It is also well known that defenseman take longer to develop than forwards.  Thus, I am not too concerned that Luke is developing slower than some of us might have hoped.  I can see him developing into a solid shut down defenseman, but do not see much chance of him developing into an elite player.  In other words, I believe that the JVR and Schenn have similar value now, but JVR has more upside. 

Another factor to keep in mind is the salary expectations of players based on their draft position.  Early picks in the first round, including both Luke and JVR, will be paid at the top end of the salary range during the earlier years in their career.  Based on performance to date, who should be paid more:  Schenn or Gunnarson? 

If Gunnarson had been picked in the first round, instead of the seventh, he would be making a lot more money than he is.

In the salary cap era, teams need to have solid players who are not making top dollars.  You have to have guys like Gunnarson, Aulie, Franson, etc. who can play in the NHL at relatively low cost so that more money can be spent on elite players.  I would not be in favour of expending these assets for a higher priced asset (such as JVR), unless I was sure about the upside of JVR. 

In other words, I would trade Schenn for JVR straight up, because I think that they have similar value right now, but JVR has more upside.  I would not be trading multiple assets (Franson, Aulie, etc.) because it would be expending low cost players for a high cost one who is not a lock to become elite.

In his recent interview, Burke said that a GM earns his salary when his advisors are split on whether or not a trade should be made.  If there is in fact an offer of Luke for JVR, it may be that half of the Toronto brain trust are in favour and half are opposed. 

It is interesting that this comment was made in the same interview that Burke talked about trading players of a similar age and ability if you had a shortage in one position and a surplus in another and also said that his priority was to get bigger at the forward position. 

 

[Bullfrog]

I think JVR is being underrated by some here. I have a very high regard for him. I still value Kulemin more, but I don't think JVR is that far behind, particularly in offensive potential.

 

[maplesyrup]

For those concerned about losing some depth on the blueline in a potential trade, hasn't Eakins maintained Blacker is NHL ready too? - I have no idea if he really is of course.

 

[bustaheims]

For those concerned about losing some depth on the blueline in a potential trade, hasn't Eakins maintained Blacker is NHL ready too? - I have no idea if he really is of course.

I haven't seen anything along those lines, but, even still, that's more of a next year scenario than a this year scenario.

 

[maplesyrup]

For those concerned about losing some depth on the blueline in a potential trade, hasn't Eakins maintained Blacker is NHL ready too? - I have no idea if he really is of course.

I haven't seen anything along those lines, but, even still, that's more of a next year scenario than a this year scenario.

Indeed.

 

[Redleaf]

Dreger's take on the rumour...

As has been reported, there have been discussions both past and present between the Flyers and Maple Leafs and Toronto remains keenly interested in James van Riemsdyk. JVR is the big body forward the leafs so desperately want and as opposed to Ryan Getzlaf, JVR is considered to be more attainable by comparison. The rumour of week plots Luke Schenn included in a package for van Riemsdyk.  The facts tell us, while those discussions are believed to have taken place, there have been no solid offers made by either team and Schenn most definitely hasn't been offered. Now, if the Flyers exhaust their search for premier defenceman and learn the likes of Ryan Suter or Shea Weber aren't available, it's likely Paul Holmgren will more seriously engage in trade talks with Brian Burke. Toronto, without question would include Schenn in a trade if JVR is the return.  As for the Flyers...as we discussed Thursday on Insider Trading, Suter, Schenn and Tim Gleason will be on the list of defenseman Philadelphia is considering.