• For users coming over from tmlfans.ca your username will remain the same but you will need to use the password reset feature (check your spam folder) on the login page in order to set your password. If you encounter issues, email Rick couchmanrick@gmail.com

2024-25 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

bustaheims said:
No thanks. No need to get into an arms race. They rarely produce a real winner.
Click to expand...
I was merely suggesting we try and improve the team in order to compete for top spot in the Atlantic and make some waves in the playoffs. We’re seeing teams that have knocked us out in the not-too-distant past do this. What is the alternative…Sit tight ? Only so many kicks at the can before this team drops completely out of contention.
 
Redleaf said:
I was merely suggesting we try and improve the team in order to compete for top spot in the Atlantic and make some waves in the playoffs. We’re seeing teams that have knocked us out in the not-too-distant past do this. What is the alternative…Sit tight ? Only so many kicks at the can before this team drops completely out of contention.
Click to expand...
Smaller moves to bolster areas of concerns are all any true contender really needs. If there's a significant long-term piece that makes sense, absolutely go for it, but don't let what other teams are doing influence your actions. That's how contention windows get wasted. Stick to the plan and adapt based on your team's performance, not anyone else's actions.

History has shown us that teams that get into these arms races or make big swings for rentals generally don't fare well.
 
bustaheims said:
Smaller moves to bolster areas of concerns are all any true contender really needs. If there's a significant long-term piece that makes sense, absolutely go for it, but don't let what other teams are doing influence your actions. That's how contention windows get wasted. Stick to the plan and adapt based on your team's performance, not anyone else's actions.

History has shown us that teams that get into these arms races or make big swings for rentals generally don't fare well.
Click to expand...
Very true. Florida traded for Tarasenko, Okposo and Hellburg last deadline. The year before, no one. Those aren't exactly big game hunting. You have to trade wisely because teams are looking to cash in mostly on expiring contracts. The best moves are for players with term to get the most out of your prospect/pick pool.
Leafs need a top 4 RD and a 2/3C.
 
Guilt Trip said:
Very true. Florida traded for Tarasenko, Okposo and Hellburg last deadline. The year before, no one. Those aren't exactly big game hunting. You have to trade wisely because teams are looking to cash in mostly on expiring contracts. The best moves are for players with term to get the most out of your prospect/pick pool.
Leafs need a top 4 RD and a 2/3C.
Click to expand...
Yup. And none of them made much of an impact when it mattered. Tarasenko had 9 points in the playoffs, Okposo had 2 and was a complete non-factor, and Hellberg was purely injury insurance.

In general, when you look at teams that went big game hunting at the deadline or made moves seemingly in response to what others did, they almost always bow out early. Teams that stick to their own plans and focus on shoring up areas of concern instead - and, especially, when they don't make a big number of moves - have better luck.
 
bustaheims said:
Smaller moves to bolster areas of concerns are all any true contender really needs. If there's a significant long-term piece that makes sense, absolutely go for it, but don't let what other teams are doing influence your actions. That's how contention windows get wasted. Stick to the plan and adapt based on your team's performance, not anyone else's actions.

History has shown us that teams that get into these arms races or make big swings for rentals generally don't fare well.
Click to expand...
While I don’t completely disagree , I don’t want to see headlines in 3-5 years time (when we have fallen from the rank of ‘contender’) that read… ‘Should the Leafs have done more in the Matthews-Marner era to challenge for a Cup?’

EDIT: If this team, that contains 3 of the best Leafs to ever play, can’t even get a sniff at the Cup, there will be questions like that that go on for years and years and years to come.
 
Last edited:
bustaheims said:
Yup. And none of them made much of an impact when it mattered. Tarasenko had 9 points in the playoffs, Okposo had 2 and was a complete non-factor, and Hellberg was purely injury insurance.

In general, when you look at teams that went big game hunting at the deadline or made moves seemingly in response to what others did, they almost always bow out early. Teams that stick to their own plans and focus on shoring up areas of concern instead - and, especially, when they don't make a big number of moves - have better luck.
Click to expand...

I might argue that those guys were depth acquisitions that may have produced more if they weren't playing in the bottom-6, and could have been replacement options if their big guns went down...they didn't, and Okposo even got scratched I think in the finals, and Florida wins.

I think that's probably what I'm most worried about is that if Nylander or Knies, or whoever in the top-6 goes down, they might want a better option that what they currently have on the roster...a better bottom 6 player that can play in the top-6 in a pinch.
 
Redleaf said:
While I don’t completely disagree , I don’t want to see headlines in 3-5 years time (when we have fallen from the rank of ‘contender’) that read… ‘Should the Leafs have done more in the Matthews-Marner era to challenge for a Cup?’

EDIT: If this team, that contains 3 of the best Leafs to ever play, can’t even get a sniff at the Cup, there will be questions like that that go on for years and years and years to come.
Click to expand...
Worrying about headlines 5 years from now is weird.
 
Joe S. said:
Worrying about headlines 5 years from now is weird.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. I see Redleaf's point.

But as cw has documented, at best winning the Cup in a 32-team league is a low-probability bet. I pretty much line up with busta here. Hopefully their goaltending will make a difference (not Last Night Woll, though). That, it seems to me, is the key to their hopes.
 
Redleaf said:
While I don’t completely disagree , I don’t want to see headlines in 3-5 years time (when we have fallen from the rank of ‘contender’) that read… ‘Should the Leafs have done more in the Matthews-Marner era to challenge for a Cup?’

EDIT: If this team, that contains 3 of the best Leafs to ever play, can’t even get a sniff at the Cup, there will be questions like that that go on for years and years and years to come.
Click to expand...
As long as they fall shot, there will be woulda, coulda, shouldas no matter what. See the Kerry Fraser no-call high stick ..

Matthews, Marner, Nylander & Tavares combined for 16% of the Leafs ice time in the playoffs last year.
But the Leafs who got the other 84% of the ice time had nothing significant to do with the result ... ?????

The Stanley Cup was first won in 1893. Name a single Cup winning roster Matthews would not be good enough to crack.
 
cabber24 said:
FLD (8-2) and TBL (9-0-1) are matching/exceeding the Leafs' (8-2) past 10 games which is very annoying.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, if I were the betting type, I'd be betting on Tampa to win the division. Their goal differential is so much better than the Leafs so far this year that it seems like the Leafs have been a little lucky and Tampa a little unlucky so far -- luck that we don't have a reason to think will carry forward.
 
princedpw said:
Unfortunately, if I were the betting type, I'd be betting on Tampa to win the division. Their goal differential is so much better than the Leafs so far this year that it seems like the Leafs have been a little lucky and Tampa a little unlucky so far -- luck that we don't have a reason to think will carry forward.
Click to expand...
Is there such a thing as an ugly winning streak, no, but I am shocked at some of the wins the Leafs have pulled off of late.
 
princedpw said:
Unfortunately, if I were the betting type, I'd be betting on Tampa to win the division. Their goal differential is so much better than the Leafs so far this year that it seems like the Leafs have been a little lucky and Tampa a little unlucky so far -- luck that we don't have a reason to think will carry forward.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't read too much into the goal differential stuff.

Tampa has had relatively few injuries this year. Their schedule also has been surprisingly not compressed.

B2Bs: Toronto 12 - Tampa 8
3 in 4: Toronto 9 - Tampa 5

Record against top 3 teams in Atlantic/Metro division (Toronto/Florida/Washington/Carolina/New Jersey/Tampa)

Toronto: 8-3-1 Tampa: 7-5-1

Breakdown of goals for:

Full Season (Tampa 59GP - Toronto 60GP)
5on5: Tampa 128 > Toronto 125
4on4: Tampa 3 > Toronto 1
5on4: Tampa 40 > Toronto 35

Since Christmas (Tampa 27GP - Toronto 25GP)
5on5: Tampa 47 < Toronto 56
4on4: Tampa 2 > Toronto 0
5on4: Tampa 16 = Toronto 16

Since the 4 Nations Tournament (Tampa 4GP - Toronto 5GP)
5on5: Tampa 7 < Toronto 16
4on4: Tampa 0 = Toronto 0
5on4: Tampa 2 < Toronto 3

Breakdown of goals against:

Full Season (Tampa 59GP - Toronto 60GP)
5on5: Tampa 102 < Toronto 101
4on4: Tampa 1 > Toronto 2
4on5: Tampa 26 > Toronto 34

Since Christmas (Tampa 27GP - Toronto 25GP)
5on5: Tampa 45 = Toronto 45
4on4: Tampa 1 = Toronto 1
4on5: Tampa 9 < Toronto 15

Since the 4 Nations Tournament (Tampa 4GP - Toronto 5GP)
5on5: Tampa 2 > Toronto 10
4on4: Tampa 0 = Toronto 0
4on5: Tampa 1 < Toronto 5

Empty Net Situations:
Tampa/Toronto Net Empty - Toronto 3GF:15GA | Tampa 5GF:14GA
Opponent Net Empty - Toronto 20GF:12GA | Tampa 21GF:2GA

As much as Tampa has a better goal differential there are two areas where the Leafs need to shore up:

1) Penalty kill. It hasn't been terrible but its prone to stretches where it struggles
2) Defending a lead late in 6 on 5 situations. The Leafs have given up a whopping 12 goals defending leads. Fortunately for the most part they have been situations where the team is leading by more than 1 goal and they hold on to win games but it definitely is an area where they need to improve
 
L K said:
1) Penalty kill. It hasn't been terrible but its prone to stretches where it struggles
2) Defending a lead late in 6 on 5 situations. The Leafs have given up a whopping 12 goals defending leads. Fortunately for the most part they have been situations where the team is leading by more than 1 goal and they hold on to win games but it definitely is an area where they need to improve
Click to expand...
Those two areas alone account for more than half of the difference, which is pretty crazy. When there's an empty net, the Leafs are -4 while TBay is +10. Definitely an area that needs improvement, but also one that really skews the difference.

Also, in the span of 3 week in late November to mid-December, Tampa had 8-1, 8-2, and 8-3 wins. They've had more games where they've run up the score than the Leafs have, which also skews things. It hasn't so much been a steady pace of scoring more. It's been a handful of games and with goalies out.
 
For whatever it's worth Tampa and Toronto have an almost identical 5-on-5 goals for and against numbers. Tampa is at 128-102 and 55.65%, 4th in the league. While Toronto is 124-101 and 55.11%, 5th in the league. Florida is right behind at 126-107, with their 54.08% GF% being 7th in the league.

What a fun division to be in.
 
Frank E said:
I might argue that those guys were depth acquisitions that may have produced more if they weren't playing in the bottom-6, and could have been replacement options if their big guns went down...they didn't, and Okposo even got scratched I think in the finals, and Florida wins.

I think that's probably what I'm most worried about is that if Nylander or Knies, or whoever in the top-6 goes down, they might want a better option that what they currently have on the roster...a better bottom 6 player that can play in the top-6 in a pinch.
Click to expand...
Sure, and I’m not against depth acquisitions, as that is an area of concern. Those can also come relatively cheap - Tarasenko, for instance, only cost Florida a 3rd and a 4th. I also wouldn’t consider that type of move responding to moves made by other teams. Some cheaper depth adds are fine. Contenders pick those up every year. It’s the big game hunting and reactionary moves that should be avoided at the deadline. Make the big moves in the summer and smaller tweaks at the deadline.
 
ZBBM said:
I don't agree. I see Redleaf's point.

But as cw has documented, at best winning the Cup in a 32-team league is a low-probability bet. I pretty much line up with busta here. Hopefully their goaltending will make a difference (not Last Night Woll, though). That, it seems to me, is the key to their hopes.
Click to expand...
Ok. You can worry about the future state of the team. Worrying about headlines is… odd.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top