OldTimeHockey
Active member
bustaheims said:
That's awesome! Go Leafs Go!
General Leafs Talk: Post-Olympics Edition
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
That's awesome! Go Leafs Go!
bustaheims
Active member
OldTimeHockey said:
-1000 or bust!
Potvin29 said:We're #1!
@TravisHeHateMe
Toronto now holds the worst 5-on-5 shot-attempt differential in analytics era. 2007 ATL old record holder at -864.
A while ago I suggested the Leafs couldn't be this bad without it being partly Carlyle's fault. Nik seemed to rag on me for that position. Oh well.
Redleaf
Active member
Two things....
1) I think Kessel and van Reimsdyk are just now suffering from the lasting effects of an Olympic hangover. They've just looked out of sync and disjointed lately after initially coming back with some swagger.
After Kessel lead the Olympic tournament in points, it must be quite an adjustment coming home to the struggling Maple Leafs. I really hope they have enough left in the tank to raise their level of play back up again come playoff time.
2) This team has relied heavily on goaltending this season, and Bernier has looked pretty good carrying the workload, with Reimer essentially losing the net (along with his confidence).
I think the pressure on James now is immense. Since Bernier's injury, he's been thrust back into the limelight and expected to carry this team on his shoulders and into the playoffs. All this attention looks to be having a negative effect on his game, and I don't think Carlyle's comments the other day about him being 'just ok' has helped much either.
1) I think Kessel and van Reimsdyk are just now suffering from the lasting effects of an Olympic hangover. They've just looked out of sync and disjointed lately after initially coming back with some swagger.
After Kessel lead the Olympic tournament in points, it must be quite an adjustment coming home to the struggling Maple Leafs. I really hope they have enough left in the tank to raise their level of play back up again come playoff time.
2) This team has relied heavily on goaltending this season, and Bernier has looked pretty good carrying the workload, with Reimer essentially losing the net (along with his confidence).
I think the pressure on James now is immense. Since Bernier's injury, he's been thrust back into the limelight and expected to carry this team on his shoulders and into the playoffs. All this attention looks to be having a negative effect on his game, and I don't think Carlyle's comments the other day about him being 'just ok' has helped much either.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
princedpw said:Potvin29 said:We're #1!
@TravisHeHateMe
Toronto now holds the worst 5-on-5 shot-attempt differential in analytics era. 2007 ATL old record holder at -864.
A while ago I suggested the Leafs couldn't be this bad without it being partly Carlyle's fault. Nik seemed to rag on me for that position. Oh well.
I don't get it. Carlyle hasn't made any significant improvements to the areas that the Leafs struggled with under Wilson, and if anything has only exacerbated the problems - their poor puck possession numbers is reflective of their poor systems/defensive play and while it was never good under Wilson it's become abysmal.
They're already the worst in the league in shots allowed per game, 3rd-worst in shots per game - it quite literally cannot get any worse. A new coach isn't going to impact whether the goalies play well or not. I struggle to see where Carlyle has had any significant positive impact on the team - PK, PP aren't noticeably improved from prior, still a disaster in their own end.
Redleaf
Active member
Potvin29 said:princedpw said:Potvin29 said:We're #1!
@TravisHeHateMe
Toronto now holds the worst 5-on-5 shot-attempt differential in analytics era. 2007 ATL old record holder at -864.
A while ago I suggested the Leafs couldn't be this bad without it being partly Carlyle's fault. Nik seemed to rag on me for that position. Oh well.
I don't get it. Carlyle hasn't made any significant improvements to the areas that the Leafs struggled with under Wilson, and if anything has only exacerbated the problems - their poor puck possession numbers is reflective of their poor systems/defensive play and while it was never good under Wilson it's become abysmal.
They're already the worst in the league in shots allowed per game, 3rd-worst in shots per game - it quite literally cannot get any worse. A new coach isn't going to impact whether the goalies play well or not. I struggle to see where Carlyle has had any significant positive impact on the team - PK, PP aren't noticeably improved from prior, still a disaster in their own end.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but since you keep doing it, why not? A new coach would struggle with the same issues. This defense needs an upgrade. Period. I don't think Nonis will trade away any younger players to do so, (and that is why I'm still on board with him) but he will need to find something out there, and the best trading options are Cody Franson and James Reimer. Unfortunately Reimer's stock is sinking like a stone right now. Hopefully he can get back on track and reel off a few wins to prop it back up before the summer.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
RedLeaf said:Potvin29 said:princedpw said:Potvin29 said:We're #1!
@TravisHeHateMe
Toronto now holds the worst 5-on-5 shot-attempt differential in analytics era. 2007 ATL old record holder at -864.
A while ago I suggested the Leafs couldn't be this bad without it being partly Carlyle's fault. Nik seemed to rag on me for that position. Oh well.
I don't get it. Carlyle hasn't made any significant improvements to the areas that the Leafs struggled with under Wilson, and if anything has only exacerbated the problems - their poor puck possession numbers is reflective of their poor systems/defensive play and while it was never good under Wilson it's become abysmal.
They're already the worst in the league in shots allowed per game, 3rd-worst in shots per game - it quite literally cannot get any worse. A new coach isn't going to impact whether the goalies play well or not. I struggle to see where Carlyle has had any significant positive impact on the team - PK, PP aren't noticeably improved from prior, still a disaster in their own end.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but since you keep doing it, why not? A new coach would struggle with the same issues. This defense needs an upgrade. Period. I don't think Nonis will trade away any younger players to do so, (and that is why I'm still on board with him) but he will need to find something out there, and the best trading options are Cody Franson and James Reimer. Unfortunately Reimer's stock is sinking like a stone right now. Hopefully he can get back on track and reel off a few wins to prop it back up before the summer.
You do not know that a new coach would struggle with the same issues. Coaches can get more or less out of a team than the individual roster suggests. It's also a whole lot easier to find out if a new coach can do something more with this club before you start jettisoning quality players, than vice versa. I don't see the downside since it can't get much worse in front of the goalies.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
Deebo said:
Then there's an issue with management as well if they cannot see the lack of improvement in the team's overall play from when Carlyle was hired to now despite the Leafs in 2013-14 being a better roster than in 2011-12. This is the same stuff happening with the Leafs as was happening with the Ducks when he was fired there, at some point it is simply something about what he's advocating for his teams to do.
Redleaf
Active member
Potvin29 said:RedLeaf said:Potvin29 said:princedpw said:Potvin29 said:We're #1!
@TravisHeHateMe
Toronto now holds the worst 5-on-5 shot-attempt differential in analytics era. 2007 ATL old record holder at -864.
A while ago I suggested the Leafs couldn't be this bad without it being partly Carlyle's fault. Nik seemed to rag on me for that position. Oh well.
I don't get it. Carlyle hasn't made any significant improvements to the areas that the Leafs struggled with under Wilson, and if anything has only exacerbated the problems - their poor puck possession numbers is reflective of their poor systems/defensive play and while it was never good under Wilson it's become abysmal.
They're already the worst in the league in shots allowed per game, 3rd-worst in shots per game - it quite literally cannot get any worse. A new coach isn't going to impact whether the goalies play well or not. I struggle to see where Carlyle has had any significant positive impact on the team - PK, PP aren't noticeably improved from prior, still a disaster in their own end.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but since you keep doing it, why not? A new coach would struggle with the same issues. This defense needs an upgrade. Period. I don't think Nonis will trade away any younger players to do so, (and that is why I'm still on board with him) but he will need to find something out there, and the best trading options are Cody Franson and James Reimer. Unfortunately Reimer's stock is sinking like a stone right now. Hopefully he can get back on track and reel off a few wins to prop it back up before the summer.
You do not know that a new coach would struggle with the same issues.
Right. It's just an educated guess, much like you guys suggesting a new coach would solve a lot of the teams problems. I think there is some risk in bringing in a new coach, and one might be the influence he could have on Nonis to start trading some of the younger guys away for proven veterans. You know...the devil you know, and all that.....
Could that happen? I would hope not, but I will say, looking at the guys brought in last summer, that Nonis may be influenced to make roster decisions on recommendations from his coaches. You'd just have to hope that Nonis' new hand picked coach likes working and developing rookies more than he does trying to win right away with veterans.
bustaheims
Active member
Potvin29 said:
And look how well the Ducks have done since Boudreau took over. It's like 2 different teams. Honestly, I don't believe the talent gap between the Ducks and the Leafs is as big as the performance gap between them. The real difference is that one team has a coach that plays to his team's strengths and the other has Carlyle.
As far as I can tell, we've already tried changing the coach (a little over 2 years ago). This team still can't find an effective defensive system with the personnel it has. The core of the team is still the same from Wilson to Carlyle (Kessel/Bozak/Lupul/Kulemin/Phaneuf/Gunnarsson). Add to that our young core (Kadri/JVR/Gardiner/Reilly), are all offensive minded players to whom defense is an afterthought to their offensive gifts. Sure McClement and Kulemin understand what to do on the defensive side,(JVR is probably next on this list but he can be lazy at times) but other than that...there is not much of defensive mindedness.
I honestly don't know what to do with this team. I still think they are good enough to make the playoffs - heck they still may gain home ice advantage, but there are glaring defensive systemic issues, that are not going to be changed solely with a change in coach. It's probably both a change in core players and a change in coach and defensive philosophy.
I honestly don't know what to do with this team. I still think they are good enough to make the playoffs - heck they still may gain home ice advantage, but there are glaring defensive systemic issues, that are not going to be changed solely with a change in coach. It's probably both a change in core players and a change in coach and defensive philosophy.
bustaheims
Active member
RedLeaf said:
Yes. I look at their roster, and, other than Getzlaf and Perry being a little better than Kessel and JvR, I really don't see a huge difference in the talent level between the two rosters. The rest of the two rosters are really pretty equal in talent level - especially with Selanne actually looking like he should have retired after last season.
bustaheims
Active member
Deebo said:
I don't know if I'd go that far, but, I think, if the Leafs had the right different coach, they'd be firmly in a playoff spot right now instead of being a bubble team.