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Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre

CarltonTheBear said:
Now lets look at the players' value to the team. If Nonis played hardball with Bernier and a deal wasn't done at this point, who does the team turn to in net? Reimer is still there and could of course handle the load while the two sides hammered out a deal. If Kadri holds outs who is our number two centre? Colborne? Bolland? Colborne probably isn't ready for that and Bolland was awful in a top-6 role with Chicago last season. If Franson holds out it means that two of Gardiner, Liles, Fraser, Holzer, or Ranger will be on our second pairing. That's two players who either Carlyle barely trusted for most last season or are bottom pairing defencemen right now at best.
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Although considering that Gardiner played 23+ minutes a night in the playoffs the idea that Carlyle doesn't trust him does not seem to be an issue going forward.
 
Nik the Trik said:
CarltonTheBear said:
Now lets look at the players' value to the team. If Nonis played hardball with Bernier and a deal wasn't done at this point, who does the team turn to in net? Reimer is still there and could of course handle the load while the two sides hammered out a deal. If Kadri holds outs who is our number two centre? Colborne? Bolland? Colborne probably isn't ready for that and Bolland was awful in a top-6 role with Chicago last season. If Franson holds out it means that two of Gardiner, Liles, Fraser, Holzer, or Ranger will be on our second pairing. That's two players who either Carlyle barely trusted for most last season or are bottom pairing defencemen right now at best.
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Although considering that Gardiner played 23+ minutes a night in the playoffs the idea that Carlyle doesn't trust him does not seem to be an issue going forward.
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I would hope so. Although it's a little odd of course that Carlyle didn't trust Gardiner enough to play him at all in game 1, but did trust him enough to give him the 3rd most minutes on the team in game 4. Injuries to Kostka and Fraser kind of forced his hand there too.

Regardless of that though, it still means we only have half of a legitimate second pairing. And going into this offseason bolstering our defence should have been a main concern for Nonis and he might not even be able to maintain status quo.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
Regardless of that though, it still means we only have half of a legitimate second pairing. And going into this offseason bolstering our defence should have been a main concern for Nonis and he might not even be able to maintain status quo.
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Yeah, although it's worth mentioning that last year Franson ranked 5th among the team's defensemen in terms of TOI(including Gardiner's 12 games) and even then he only averaged a second more time than Liles and 16 seconds more than Holzer so the idea that Carlyle didn't really trust those guys but did trust Franson in any big way doesn't strike me as real. I personally liked what Franson brought to the table offensively but his absence is not the difference between this team having a good top 4 and having a not good one.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
I would hope so. Although it's a little odd of course that Carlyle didn't trust Gardiner enough to play him at all in game 1, but did trust him enough to give him the 3rd most minutes on the team in game 4. Injuries to Kostka and Fraser kind of forced his hand there too.
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It's not all that odd, really. The Gardiner we saw during the regular season didn't really deserve Carlyle's trust. He was still clearly feeling some of the effects of missing time because of concussion and wasn't at 100% in terms of his timing. By the time injuries forced him into the lineup in the playoffs, those issues had sorted themselves out and Gardiner's play in games 2 and 3 earned him that level of trust. Had Gardiner played at the same level in the regular season as he did in the playoffs, he would have seen a similar increase in his ice time.
 
Nik the Trik said:
CarltonTheBear said:
Regardless of that though, it still means we only have half of a legitimate second pairing. And going into this offseason bolstering our defence should have been a main concern for Nonis and he might not even be able to maintain status quo.
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Yeah, although it's worth mentioning that last year Franson ranked 5th among the team's defensemen in terms of TOI(including Gardiner's 12 games) and even then he only averaged a second more time than Liles and 16 seconds more than Holzer so the idea that Carlyle didn't really trust those guys but did trust Franson in any big way doesn't strike me as real. I personally liked what Franson brought to the table offensively but his absence is not the difference between this team having a good top 4 and having a not good one.
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Fair enough. Although while I would have been perfectly happy only criticizing Nonis in this thread, I can't for the life of me tell you why Franson's ice-time was so low this past season. My only theory is that Carlyle was unwilling to break the Fraser-Franson pairing and since Fraser could only play third line minutes that meant that Franson had to only play 3rd line minutes as well. I can understand why Carlyle tried Kostka and Holzer with Phaneuf over Franson since they're considered safer defencemen but Franson still should have been getting 2nd line minutes.

With that said, I think the best our defence played all season long was when Fraser and Kostka were both injured in the playoffs and Franson (and Gardiner) were finally "trusted" in a top-4 role. Gunnarsson-Phaneuf and Gardiner-Franson is the best defence we can put together on paper and in my opinion it gets downgraded by quite a bit if/when Franson is replaced by any other defenceman on the roster.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
Fair enough. Although while I would have been perfectly happy only criticizing Nonis in this thread, I can't for the life of me tell you why Franson's ice-time was so low this past season. My only theory is that Carlyle was unwilling to break the Fraser-Franson pairing and since Fraser could only play third line minutes that meant that Franson had to only play 3rd line minutes as well. I can understand why Carlyle tried Kostka and Holzer with Phaneuf over Franson since they're considered safer defencemen but Franson still should have been getting 2nd line minutes.
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I don't think there's a big mystery there. Franson, though not terrible, is kind of problematic defensively. He's not super quick, he's not very physical, he can get hemmed in his own end and is prone to mental gaffes. He was, to the extent that you want ot use CORSI for this, the most sheltered of the Leafs defensemen and yet the team still had a worse save percentage with him on the ice than for any defenseman other than Holzer.

He had a good playoffs but his flaws were on display last year too.

Edit to add: And the thing about that is that if you don't really have any good options for the #4 spot I know it might be some people's preference to simply choose the best of a bad bunch and stick them there but I think it's a more realistic option to rotate guys in and out of that spot to see if they can do better or have improved.
CarltonTheBear said:
With that said, I think the best our defence played all season long was when Fraser and Kostka were both injured in the playoffs and Franson (and Gardiner) were finally "trusted" in a top-4 role. Gunnarsson-Phaneuf and Gardiner-Franson is the best defence we can put together on paper and in my opinion it gets downgraded by quite a bit if/when Franson is replaced by any other defenceman on the roster.
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I think that's more or less true but I'd add the following caveats.

-I think Liles is a better player than he showed last season and I would not expect him to have the same season.
-I have absolutely no idea what to expect from Ranger
-I am always suspicious of players in contract years and their ability to duplicate their success
-I think that, ideally, the team's top 4 next year would not have Franson but rather Rielly

 
Bullfrog said:
The thing he's got going for him though is that the last 48 of those 100 was very impressive.
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He really tailed off towards the end though, only 9 points in his final 19 games (playoffs included).

I don't think he's done it long enough at the NHL level to pay him big quite yet.
 
I don't disagree. But it really depends on what his current demands are. I'm not advocating he gets Grabovski type money.
 
5 million per?

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/kadri-leafs-remain-divided-in-negoatiations/


The Toronto Maple Leafs and Nazem Kadri remain far apart in their contract negotiations and the battle to get a deal done appears to be much further away than perhaps feared.

Recently, Kadri told reporters that the current contract talks have started to become a ?distraction? and that he was ?being more than reasonable? and it was up to the Leafs at this point.

Kadri?s side opened negotiations early in the process seeking a contract in the neighbourhood of $36 million over six years. Their camp is open to bringing that number down to $5 million per season as a means to help the Leafs with their current cap squeeze.

Kadri?s camp is looking at the contracts that were recently doled out to players in his draft class. His points per game, shooting percentage and potential are also factors in Kadri?s case.

Meanwhile, the Leafs were more interested in giving Kadri a shorter-term bridge-type deal in the neighbourhood of $6 million over two years. Their biggest concern lies with Kadri?s significant drop off over his last 19 games (including the playoffs) where he managed only nine points. A far cry from the 39 points over 30 games he had previously.
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OldTimeHockey said:
If Kadri wants 5 million I hope he enjoys a long winter eating cheeseburgers.
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Meh. If they are really asking for this, it's worth trying to get it at this point. They will come down to the bridge deal at some point for sure. Kadri really holds no power on this deal.
 
Adam Henrique re-signed with the devils for $4M AAV over a 6 year term.

67Pts in 117 NHL games (.573 PPG)

Kadri has 66P in 99 NHL games (.636 PPG)

So I think a deal similar to this or a shorter term with a  lower AAV would be what it takes to get him signed.

2 years at ~3M or 6 years at ~4M is what we'd be looking at.
 
OldTimeHockey said:
If Kadri wants 5 million I hope he enjoys a long winter eating cheeseburgers.
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Kadri's already called out that particular reporter for not having any clue what he's talking about.
 
Deebo said:
Adam Henrique re-signed with the devils for $4M AAV over a 6 year term.

67Pts in 117 NHL games (.573 PPG)

Kadri has 66P in 99 NHL games (.636 PPG)

So I think a deal similar to this or a shorter term with a  lower AAV would be what it takes to get him signed.

2 years at ~3M or 6 years at ~4M is what we'd be looking at.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. The team definitely has to get a healthy AAV discount on a long-term deal, but If I'm Kadri I take the shorter deal and hope to have two big seasons, then cash in on the 8 year deal at a higher AAV.
 
Corn Flake said:
Deebo said:
Adam Henrique re-signed with the devils for $4M AAV over a 6 year term.

67Pts in 117 NHL games (.573 PPG)

Kadri has 66P in 99 NHL games (.636 PPG)

So I think a deal similar to this or a shorter term with a  lower AAV would be what it takes to get him signed.

2 years at ~3M or 6 years at ~4M is what we'd be looking at.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. The team definitely has to get a healthy AAV discount on a long-term deal, but If I'm Kadri I take the shorter deal and hope to have two big seasons, then cash in on the 8 year deal at a higher AAV.
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It worked pretty well for PK Subban.

You'd think the Leafs, in a world where they had more cap space, would want to get him under a JVR-like contract. Today we say Kadri's done nothing to prove he's worth $4.5m/year. If he has a sophomore slump next season, we'll be screaming he's not worth it. If in the 4 or 5 seasons after he produces the way the teams' scouts think his skills suggest he will in his prime, he'll be a very good deal at $4.5m.
 
bustaheims said:
OldTimeHockey said:
If Kadri wants 5 million I hope he enjoys a long winter eating cheeseburgers.
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Kadri's already called out that particular reporter for not having any clue what he's talking about.
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Well, that's pretty compelling evidence. Did he twitter-block said reporter too? 
 
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