Playoff push trade pickups...

[bustaheims]

I don't think that I am not a Nylander hater but for the skill he has shown in the regular season and in the playoffs he is the one Leaf forward that really shies away from physical contact and has cost goals when bailing on being hit or hitting.  Matthews, Tavares, Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Kampf, Kase and even Marner are throwing hits now and going in the 'dirty areas'.

So I really LOVE Nylander's talent but looking at other similar talented players you don't see such an avoidance to physical contact.  I am not looking for a Ryan Reaves, Nicholas Deslaurier, Tom Wilson style BTW.  If he simply played like Pastrnak (6'0" 189 lbs) who is the same age and a lighter physique I would be estatic.    I was even looking at Debrincat who is younger than Nylander but has 83 hits in his 63 games to go with his 34 goals.  I then discovered Debrincat is 5'7" and only 160-ish lbs compared to Nylanders 23 goals and 6'0" 202 lbs body.

Nylander scores a huge portion of his goals from the slot/in front of the net - very much dirty areas. He may not throw hits, but it's not at all accurate to say he's not willing to play tough minutes in difficult areas or bails on being hit. He picks his spots. No sense in taking a hit when there isn't a play to be made.

Maybe I just hate him then...rats! 

Or, you've just bought into the narrative that's been pushed about him since before he got here and hasn't changed regardless of how Nylander actually plays. It can be hard to shake the vision you have of a player even when their performance doesn't line up with it. You still focus on the times he doesn't do what you want rather, and that just reinforces your position. Confirmation bias is hard to overcome.

 

[Redleaf]

I don't mind the moves made this year.  Florida did some crazy payments this year but there wasn't any trade that I wish Dubas did instead of another team based on the costs vs the player except maybe the Fleury for a 2nd...if Fleury would have been willing to come to Toronto which I have never heard that he was open to that.

I don't think that I am not a Nylander hater but for the skill he has shown in the regular season and in the playoffs he is the one Leaf forward that really shies away from physical contact and has cost goals when bailing on being hit or hitting.  Matthews, Tavares, Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Kampf, Kase and even Marner are throwing hits now and going in the 'dirty areas'.

So I really LOVE Nylander's talent but looking at other similar talented players you don't see such an avoidance to physical contact.  I am not looking for a Ryan Reaves, Nicholas Deslaurier, Tom Wilson style BTW.  If he simply played like Pastrnak (6'0" 189 lbs) who is the same age and a lighter physique I would be estatic.    I was even looking at Debrincat who is younger than Nylander but has 83 hits in his 63 games to go with his 34 goals.  I then discovered Debrincat is 5'7" and only 160-ish lbs compared to Nylanders 23 goals and 6'0" 202 lbs body.

I was wondering if a trade for JT Miller (I would add Motte too) for Nylander could have worked but I saw it basically suggested on The Athletic with the Leaf beat writers shooting it down as bad for the Leafs because it would only be 2 playoffs for Miller.  I was thinking it would only be 3 more for Nylander so...

Since JT Miller didn't get traded anywhere I question if he was even on the market.

The Leafs going with a d corps of Rielly/Lyubushkin, Giodano/Brodie, Muzzin + whoever (Sandin, Holl, Liljegren, etc) should be solid.

Goaltending might rebound...hopefully.

Wished we maybe got: Fleury, Motte, maybe Rackell and his 12 goals as RW, maybe RHD J Brown as an 8th d for the physical play,

I am glad we didn't get Chiarot (cost WAY to much) and Domi (hasn't played well for years).  Woof!

Nice little breakdown.

I suspect if the Leafs don't play well enough again in this years playoffs, Nylander could very well be the one in the crosshairs. And not because he's not living up to his contract, but more because of what he could bring in return in the offseason.

 

[Joe S.]

If you look around the league right now, nylander?s contract is a bargain relatively speaking.

I know it needs to be looked at in context, but no one ever seemed to do that when bringing up old contracts that Boston players signed.

 

[Guilt Trip]

If you look around the league right now, nylander?s contract is a bargain relatively speaking.

I know it needs to be looked at in context, but no one ever seemed to do that when bringing up old contracts that Boston players signed.

My issue with Nylander is in his own end.

 

[hobarth]

What did Dubie miss for this TDL, I thought he should've tried to sign E. Kane and I don't know why he didn't trade Dermott to Van. for Motte.

Bunting/Matthews/Nylander
Kane/JT/Marner
Mikheyev/Kampf/Engvall
Motte/Kerfoot/Blackwell

Spares: Spezza & Simmonds

Rielly/Bushkin
Giordano/Brody
Muzzin/Holl

Spares: Lily & Sandin

I like the looks of this team, it might be enough of a team that can outscore it's problems, goaltending, but if the forwards decided they would play defense it could go all the way.

I know Kane & Motte are the only differences from what Dubie did but Kane on the 2nd line would've been huge, he's having a significant affect on Edmonton, Motte and Blackwell on the 4th instead of the oldsters, they're both physical and fast, that's what's needed. 

 

[ZBBM]

I don't mind the moves made this year.  Florida did some crazy payments this year but there wasn't any trade that I wish Dubas did instead of another team based on the costs vs the player except maybe the Fleury for a 2nd...if Fleury would have been willing to come to Toronto which I have never heard that he was open to that.

I don't think that I am not a Nylander hater but for the skill he has shown in the regular season and in the playoffs he is the one Leaf forward that really shies away from physical contact and has cost goals when bailing on being hit or hitting.  Matthews, Tavares, Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Kampf, Kase and even Marner are throwing hits now and going in the 'dirty areas'.

So I really LOVE Nylander's talent but looking at other similar talented players you don't see such an avoidance to physical contact.  I am not looking for a Ryan Reaves, Nicholas Deslaurier, Tom Wilson style BTW.  If he simply played like Pastrnak (6'0" 189 lbs) who is the same age and a lighter physique I would be estatic.    I was even looking at Debrincat who is younger than Nylander but has 83 hits in his 63 games to go with his 34 goals.  I then discovered Debrincat is 5'7" and only 160-ish lbs compared to Nylanders 23 goals and 6'0" 202 lbs body.

I was wondering if a trade for JT Miller (I would add Motte too) for Nylander could have worked but I saw it basically suggested on The Athletic with the Leaf beat writers shooting it down as bad for the Leafs because it would only be 2 playoffs for Miller.  I was thinking it would only be 3 more for Nylander so...

Since JT Miller didn't get traded anywhere I question if he was even on the market.

The Leafs going with a d corps of Rielly/Lyubushkin, Giodano/Brodie, Muzzin + whoever (Sandin, Holl, Liljegren, etc) should be solid.

Goaltending might rebound...hopefully.

Wished we maybe got: Fleury, Motte, maybe Rackell and his 12 goals as RW, maybe RHD J Brown as an 8th d for the physical play,

I am glad we didn't get Chiarot (cost WAY to much) and Domi (hasn't played well for years).  Woof!

Nice little breakdown.

I suspect if the Leafs don't play well enough again in this years playoffs, Nylander could very well be the one in the crosshairs. And not because he's not living up to his contract, but more because of what he could bring in return in the offseason.

If it's another first round exit, yeah, Willy's the one from the core 4 who would go in a shake-up.  Which quite possibly would be under the direction of a new GM and Pres.

 

[azzurri63]

I don't think that I am not a Nylander hater but for the skill he has shown in the regular season and in the playoffs he is the one Leaf forward that really shies away from physical contact and has cost goals when bailing on being hit or hitting.  Matthews, Tavares, Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Kampf, Kase and even Marner are throwing hits now and going in the 'dirty areas'.

So I really LOVE Nylander's talent but looking at other similar talented players you don't see such an avoidance to physical contact.  I am not looking for a Ryan Reaves, Nicholas Deslaurier, Tom Wilson style BTW.  If he simply played like Pastrnak (6'0" 189 lbs) who is the same age and a lighter physique I would be estatic.    I was even looking at Debrincat who is younger than Nylander but has 83 hits in his 63 games to go with his 34 goals.  I then discovered Debrincat is 5'7" and only 160-ish lbs compared to Nylanders 23 goals and 6'0" 202 lbs body.

Nylander scores a huge portion of his goals from the slot/in front of the net - very much dirty areas. He may not throw hits, but it's not at all accurate to say he's not willing to play tough minutes in difficult areas or bails on being hit. He picks his spots. No sense in taking a hit when there isn't a play to be made.

Maybe I just hate him then...rats! 

Been saying that about him all his career. You think that may have changed as he got older, stronger etc. I called out the hits which are a joke and that you don't win with guys like that in the playoffs and I'm sure Nik you'll correct me again. My problem is exactly what you are saying about Nylander shying away from the hits and contact, avoiding it. As has been stated even Matthews has started to dish out the body more and being elite part of that stems from him getting hit and he's probably said f it I'm not taking it anymore. The playoffs are a completely different game and you can't win when you have players that have the mentality of Nylander. It's not so much dishing out the hits it's playing passive and maybe losing puck battles because he avoids the contact that might be coming. In my opinion not a recipe for success. Don't get me wrong I love Willy. He's got exceptional talent but too inconsistent I feel. Shows up for a game or two and then disappears for a couple. As far as his contract at the time I didn't like it because he held out and got what he wanted. Now to comment on your post Joe S ya the contract looks fine but contracts are going up all the time so of course it looks good. If he was signing today I guarantee you it wouldn't be for the 6.9.

 

[Kin]

Been saying that about him all his career. You think that may have changed as he got older, stronger etc. I called out the hits which are a joke and that you don't win with guys like that in the playoffs and I'm sure Nik you'll correct me again.

Kessel and Kane have 5 Stanley Cup rings. At this point your argument is with reality.

 

[azzurri63]

Been saying that about him all his career. You think that may have changed as he got older, stronger etc. I called out the hits which are a joke and that you don't win with guys like that in the playoffs and I'm sure Nik you'll correct me again.

Kessel and Kane have 5 Stanley Cup rings. At this point your argument is with reality.

Have you watched all these games when these teams won cups? You compared Kane and Nylander and yes I agree both don't hit. I get that and I'm ok with that. But without the puck, how do they play? I don't think Kane shies away from contact and I'm sure he steps up his game in that regard in the playoffs. Nylander I would beg to differ. That's his game always has been and always will. You're missing my point when I say you don't win with those kind of guys. Ya teams can win but you need a totally different mindset and play come playoffs. It's a different beast and it's not just Nylander on this team.  You need warriors guys that will do anything to win which includes sacrificing your body taking a hit, dishing them out whatever. Nylander isn't cut out for that.

 

[princedpw]

My difficulty with focusing on Nylander as a problem is that last year, he had 5 goals and 8 points in 7 playoff games.  We lost because no one but Nylander (Spezza, Kerfoot, Rielly) stepped up.  Not enough from Matthews, Marner, or Hyman, and Tavares was injured.

 

[Kin]

You're missing my point when I say you don't win with those kind of guys. Ya teams can win

 

[Kin]

Incidentally in the year when Patrick Kane won the Conn Smythe, he was credited with 3 hits in the 23 playoff games he played that season.

 

[azzurri63]

Incidentally in the year when Patrick Kane won the Conn Smythe, he was credited with 3 hits in the 23 playoff games he played that season.

That's fine he doesn't hit and I don't expect Willy to bash people but again watching him play does he (Kane) shy away from the physical part of the game? Does he shy away from contact? Nylander does and I might add is almost 30 pounds heavier than Kane who I consider on the small side. That's what I find with Willy's game and it's frustrating watching him turn away or stop pursuing for loose pucks knowing that he may get hit.

 

[azzurri63]

My difficulty with focusing on Nylander as a problem is that last year, he had 5 goals and 8 points in 7 playoff games.  We lost because no one but Nylander (Spezza, Kerfoot, Rielly) stepped up.  Not enough from Matthews, Marner, or Hyman, and Tavares was injured.

Good point but do you think the Tavares injury had any barring on any of the above?

 

[Kin]

That's fine he doesn't hit and I don't expect Willy to bash people but again watching him play does he (Kane) shy away from the physical part of the game? Does he shy away from contact?

As has been pointed out, Nylander doesn't either. It's why he scores his goals from where he does and if his scoring didn't translate into the playoffs, he wouldn't have been an effective playoff scorer his last two years.

And I notice you didn't mention Kessel who has had the exact same thing said about him, in fact he's much more of a perimeter guy than Nylander ever was, who also has two shiny rings.

Just face facts. What you're saying isn't true about Nylander and even if it was, what you're saying about players of that sort isn't true either.

 

[louisstamos]

I'm not sure if anyone wants to say it, but the Nylander criticism just rings of the jingoism left in the wake by the ghost of Don Cherry and the other dinosaurs of the game.  Nylander gets the criticism that Kane and Kessel don't, despite playing very similar games, is because of the country on his passport.

I'm reminded of rants like this, which has aged poorly in *multiple* facets...

https://twitter.com/LifeofaDman/status/1458662539219419137

 

[Bullfrog]

That's fine he doesn't hit and I don't expect Willy to bash people but again watching him play does he (Kane) shy away from the physical part of the game? Does he shy away from contact?

As has been pointed out, Nylander doesn't either. It's why he scores his goals from where he does and if his scoring didn't translate into the playoffs, he wouldn't have been an effective playoff scorer his last two years.

And I notice you didn't mention Kessel who has had the exact same thing said about him, in fact he's much more of a perimeter guy than Nylander ever was, who also has two shiny rings.

Just face facts. What you're saying isn't true about Nylander and even if it was, what you're saying about players of that sort isn't true either.

Ya, but in Kessel's defense he's only <pauses to look it up> 6'-0", 223 lb.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

That's fine he doesn't hit and I don't expect Willy to bash people but again watching him play does he (Kane) shy away from the physical part of the game? Does he shy away from contact?

As has been pointed out, Nylander doesn't either. It's why he scores his goals from where he does and if his scoring didn't translate into the playoffs, he wouldn't have been an effective playoff scorer his last two years.

And I notice you didn't mention Kessel who has had the exact same thing said about him, in fact he's much more of a perimeter guy than Nylander ever was, who also has two shiny rings.

Just face facts. What you're saying isn't true about Nylander and even if it was, what you're saying about players of that sort isn't true either.

Ya, but in Kessel's defense he's only <pauses to look it up> 6'-0", 223 lb.

That's a lot of hotdogs. 

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I don't think Nylander is a guy that avoids contact. I think he's a guy that just decides to take shifts or games off. Goes invisible for stretches when he's not moving his feet. But he's not the first player to display that type of game. As has been mentioned, Kessel has been guilty of it his whole career. It hasn't hurt his teams in the playoffs.

Nylander is not a problem on this team. We need to stop focusing the blame on him as it's really not what is losing the Leafs games. The only thing that these habits do is keep Nylander in the 7.5 million a year category as opposed to the 11.5 million a year category. In which case, the Leafs wouldn't have his talent on the team.

Will Nylander get moved if the team falters again? Perhaps. But if he's as expendable as people seem to think, why would other teams pay a kings ransom for him?

 

[Guilt Trip]

I don't think Nylander is a guy that avoids contact. I think he's a guy that just decides to take shifts or games off. Goes invisible for stretches when he's not moving his feet. But he's not the first player to display that type of game. As has been mentioned, Kessel has been guilty of it his whole career. It hasn't hurt his teams in the playoffs.

Nylander is not a problem on this team. We need to stop focusing the blame on him as it's really not what is losing the Leafs games. The only thing that these habits do is keep Nylander in the 7.5 million a year category as opposed to the 11.5 million a year category. In which case, the Leafs wouldn't have his talent on the team.

Will Nylander get moved if the team falters again? Perhaps. But if he's as expendable as people seem to think, why would other teams pay a kings ransom for him?

Because they're stupid and don't see his shortcomings?