Borgman traded to STL for Jordan Schmaltz

[CarltonTheBear]

Until Dermott returns the defence will look like:

Muzzin-Barrie
Rielly-Ceci
Marincin/Gravel/Harpur-Holl/Schmaltz/Liljegren

Until Dermott returns our defense kind of scares me.

If Rielly and Ceci are going to get the match-up role, then I might consider splitting up Muzzin and Barrie until Dermott's healthy. Muzzin might be a good partner for Liljegren to get his feet wet with.

The flip side to this is that I don't want Ceci playing in a match-up role.

 

[Guilt Trip]

If Rielly and Ceci are going to get the match-up role, then I might consider splitting up Muzzin and Barrie until Dermott's healthy. Muzzin might be a good partner for Liljegren to get his feet wet with.

The flip side to this is that I don't want Ceci playing in a match-up role.

If memory serves, Rielly didn't get the matchup role against the Bruins so hopefully Ceci, if he plays with him, won't be in that role either.
I totally agree that Muzzin would be a perfect guy for Liljegren to start with but does that mean Barrie and Rielly go together in your scenario? Would Dermott be with Ceci and who'd be  the 3rd pair?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If memory serves, Rielly didn't get the matchup role against the Bruins so hopefully Ceci, if he plays with him, won't be in that role either.
I totally agree that Muzzin would be a perfect guy for Liljegren to start with but does that mean Barrie and Rielly go together in your scenario? Would Dermott be with Ceci and who'd be  the 3rd pair?

No like I said my scenario had Rielly and Ceci playing together and Muzzin/Barrie split up to play with the fringe guys. So Muzzin with say Liljegren and Barrie with Marincin/Gravel/HarpurbuthopefullynotHarpur. We might see some experimentation with the pairings but I think one constant will be that Rielly and Barrie won't play together. Having two rovers can be dangerous and it's probably more beneficial to keep them apart anyway.

I don't know for certain who will be the shutdown pairing. Muzzin or Rielly will steer it. If it's Muzzin his partner will be Barrie, but Barrie doesn't have much experience in that role. If it's Rielly his partner will be Ceci, who has experience in that role but we all know what the results were. Muzzin was the guy in the playoffs but Rielly was the guy at literally every other point during Babcock's tenure. So my money is on Rielly-Ceci to start.

 

[pmrules]

How about...

Rielly Ceci
Dermott Barrie
Muzzin Liljegren

Not sure how that 2nd pairing would work...but I like the idea of splitting Rielly/Barrie/Muzzin.

 

[Frank E]

I like to think that Liljegren blows the doors off at camp, then maybe it's him and Marincin for 5-6.

 

[Guilt Trip]

If memory serves, Rielly didn't get the matchup role against the Bruins so hopefully Ceci, if he plays with him, won't be in that role either.
I totally agree that Muzzin would be a perfect guy for Liljegren to start with but does that mean Barrie and Rielly go together in your scenario? Would Dermott be with Ceci and who'd be  the 3rd pair?

No like I said my scenario had Rielly and Ceci playing together and Muzzin/Barrie split up to play with the fringe guys. So Muzzin with say Liljegren and Barrie with Marincin/Gravel/HarpurbuthopefullynotHarpur. We might see some experimentation with the pairings but I think one constant will be that Rielly and Barrie won't play together. Having two rovers can be dangerous and it's probably more beneficial to keep them apart anyway.

I don't know for certain who will be the shutdown pairing. Muzzin or Rielly will steer it. If it's Muzzin his partner will be Barrie, but Barrie doesn't have much experience in that role. If it's Rielly his partner will be Ceci, who has experience in that role but we all know what the results were. Muzzin was the guy in the playoffs but Rielly was the guy at literally every other point during Babcock's tenure. So my money is on Rielly-Ceci to start.

Thanks for the explain...I like your train of thought.

 

[Frank E]

Mid-summer sports news is so thirsty for content that this trade is top right of the page on sportsnet.ca

 

[CarltonTheBear]

How about...

Rielly Ceci
Dermott Barrie
Muzzin Liljegren

Not sure how that 2nd pairing would work...but I like the idea of splitting Rielly/Barrie/Muzzin.

If we go with the "split Muzzin-Barrie" idea then Dermott could essentially just replace whichever one of the two fringe defencemen that struggled the most. He's the only defenceman that I think Babcock would play on either side. Everyone else is locked into their strong side.

 

[slapshot]

Leafs and Blues swap d-man, lefty for righty 2.0

Last time they did this was in 2015, Gunner (also a Swede) for Polak. That seemed to work out for both sides for a while, though Gunner got the last laugh, and a big playoff OT goal to boot.

Hope this time, its the Leafs guy!

Realistically, though, just a right side depth add, with maybe some hope of a reclamation project.  I think people will tend to look at Schmaltz's number and just say blah, but you never know. There was certainly not much opportunity in St. Louis with the depth they have on their right side defence. I am certainly prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see him in a bunch of games. Certainly creates more competition for Liljegren, which is not a bad thing and gives the Leafs another third pairing option if he's not ready to make the jump.  He was a 1st rounder so maybe he's just a late bloomer. I remember Anton Strahlman took a long time to get his game together.

As for Borgman, a victim of no room of the left side. Sure he might have gotten a month on the Leafs, but once Dermott comes back that is it. Perhaps an opportunity would arise again next year, but Sandin would likely be first in line for that. I think the deal kind of makes sense. 

 

[slapshot]

Until Dermott returns the defence will look like:

Muzzin-Barrie
Rielly-Ceci
Marincin/Gravel/Harpur-Holl/Schmaltz/Liljegren

Until Dermott returns our defense kind of scares me.

If Rielly and Ceci are going to get the match-up role, then I might consider splitting up Muzzin and Barrie until Dermott's healthy. Muzzin might be a good partner for Liljegren to get his feet wet with.

The flip side to this is that I don't want Ceci playing in a match-up role.

I tend to go with Guilt Trip on this one.  I think Rielly and Barrie will get top minutes together.  Muzzin with either Liljegren or Ceci.

But I agree with you left side looks really scary until Dermott gets back. The M word on the left side I don't even want to think about...

 

[sickbeast]

 

[Kin]

But I agree with you left side looks really scary until Dermott gets back. The M word on the left side I don't even want to think about...

The Left side is Rielly and Muzzin along with the best of the bottom pairing possibilities, whether it's Harpur or Marincin or whoever. That's almost certainly still going to be better than a right side of Barrie-Ceci-Holl/Schmaltz/Liljegren

 

[Bullfrog]

I'm completely fine with Marincin as a 3rd pairing/PK guy. At this point of his career, he is what he is. I'm not particularly passionate either way.

I'm curious to see what the other guys bring in pre-season.

 

[princedpw]

I'm completely fine with Marincin as a 3rd pairing/PK guy. At this point of his career, he is what he is. I'm not particularly passionate either way.

I'm curious to see what the other guys bring in pre-season.

I?m more than fine with Marincin.  He?s supposed to be an excellent PKer and I thought he looked fine as 3rd pairing dman.

A top 4 of

Reilly-Ceci
Muzzin-Barrie

Should be incredible offensively.  And the first 2 months of the season, no one plays any defense anyway.  I?m looking forward to seeing it in action.

I think Marincin will be on the team all year because of his strength on the PK.

 

[ZBBM]

Our defense remains ... what it always is.  Suspect.

 

[Kin]

Our defense remains ... what it always is.  Suspect.

I'm not so sure that's true anymore. The Leafs have four unquestionably good NHL defensemen in Rielly, Muzzin, Barrie and Dermott. Honestly, there aren't that many teams out there in the league with more than that. Get to just about any team's third pairing and it's guys who are unimpressive or borderline NHLers at best.

Even Nashville now that they've traded Subban, are relying on guys like Steven Santorini and Dan Hamhuis' corpse to fill out their bottom pairing.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Even Nashville now that they've traded Subban, are relying on guys like Steven Santorini and Dan Hamhuis' corpse to fill out their bottom pairing.

There's no way Hamhuis is still playing in the NHL. You made that up.

 

[herman]

Leafs defense is a bit more dependent on how the forwards develop in terms of their responsibilities supporting the puck and giving open options to their defense.

Matthews and Marner* and Nylander are really good at quick backchecks and stealing the puck, but if the other team gets set up in our zone, they're almost non-entities. Nylander is probably the strongest defensively of the three, and that's somewhat horrifying given how everyone believes he's the worst DZ player ever to wear the Leaf (erroneously).

Larger numbers = more shots against. For reference, the team-wide shots against Threat% is +8; Matthews is +16, Marner is +13.

What has changed on the positive for the Leafs, even after losing Gardiner, is that there is far more puck competence on the backend now. Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott, Barrie, Schmaltz, Holl are all pretty comfortable handling the puck for more than two seconds. I think Ceci is okay if you support him with short outlets; same with Marincin. All they need to do is get the puck cleanly to a forward.

*Don't give me this nonsense that Marner is better defensively. People only think that because Marner looks like he's working harder (hunched over waterbug). Similar to Kapanen, they're always chasing the puck that way because they're in the wrong place.

 

[herman]

The good quadrant (top-right) is good at generating chances and good at limiting chances. Most of the Leafs live in very good at generating chances, and giving back almost as much. Left of the red line means they give up more than they create.

 

[Coco-puffs]

I'm completely fine with Marincin as a 3rd pairing/PK guy. At this point of his career, he is what he is. I'm not particularly passionate either way.

I'm curious to see what the other guys bring in pre-season.

I agree with you.  Out of the (non-Sandin) options right now, I'd lean strongly towards Marincin over Harpur and Gravel. 

Even when Dermott returns, I think I'd rather have Marincin in the lineup as the 6th D over anyone not named Liljegren or Sandin.

Rielly - Dermott
Muzzin - Barrie
Marincin - Ceci