Contracts for the Big-3

[Phileas Fogg]

I don't get it. Who does that put pressure on and why?

Are you asking because you honestly don't know, or because you're looking for an arguement?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Yeah, I mean I don't get that either. To me, if anything, it sends the complete opposite message.

 

[Kin]

Are you asking because you honestly don't know, or because you're looking for an arguement?

I suppose I'm looking for the point to be a little clearer. Nylander and his agent are, presumably, available by phone wherever they are in the world and his agent is local enough that an in-person visit is easy enough if there's meaningful movement on either side. I tend to think most people know that the issue here is a real gap in terms of salary number so I really don't see what Nylander's actual physical presence in Toronto would do if he's not also in the mood to move off whatever his number is.

So I guess I don't understand the point but I suppose I reserve the right to disagree with it unless there's something I'm missing.

 

[Kin]

Yeah, I mean I don't get that either. To me, if anything, it sends the complete opposite message.

Right? If Nylander shows up and is playing shinny games with kids on the street and saying "Man, nothing I'd rather do than be suiting up for the Blue and White" isn't the natural fan/media response going to be "Well, accept the Leafs' offer then, you beautiful moron".

 

[Bullfrog]

Yeah, I mean I don't get that either. To me, if anything, it sends the complete opposite message.

I see it the other way and agree with Frank. While I don't think it necessarily adds pressure, I think it could be beneficial to negotiations. I don't care how good technology is, I always get more done in an in-person meeting.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I suppose I'm looking for the point to be a little clearer. .

Fair enough. I won't speak for FrankE, but my interpretation is by actually making the effort to travel to negotiate, particularly at this stage, shows both MLSE management and the fan base that he's committed to a resolution with this team, and ready to take to the ice immediately. The optics in the media will show that he's here to make a deal with this show of faith, and preserve the relationship with the team and the pressure will be on Dubas to do his part. If he flies back to Sweden, the narrative will more likely be that Dubas didn't do enough to get it done, rather than Nylander wasn't serious about negotating, regardless of the true details.

 

[princedpw]

I was thinking, in the name of shrewd negotiation, that it might be good for Nylander to get himself to Toronto to put the pressure on.

Actually, that makes a lot of sense. Would certainly shift the pressure substantially.

I think Nylander coming to Toronto might be interpreted as a sign of weakness.  To avoid such signs of weakness, it seems last time they met on neutral ground.  Perhaps Dubas should go to Sweden?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I see it the other way and agree with Frank. While I don't think it necessarily adds pressure, I think it could be beneficial to negotiations. I don't care how good technology is, I always get more done in an in-person meeting.

Oh I certainly think that it would be beneficial to negotiations, but moreso on Toronto's side. If Nylander flew to Toronto he's essentially saying "ok, enough screwing around I'm willing to get a deal done". It'd be a step in the right direction I think. But the original stance would be that it helps Nylander and adds pressure to the Leafs. If anything it hurts him. By staying in Sweden he's saying that he's willing to be patient and maybe even willing to stay there all season. That's one of the only cards he can play here.

Now... if Nylander just happened to take a flight to Carolina... THAT would be adding pressure.

 

[Kin]

I would never underestimate the local media and fans in their ability to create a weird narrative but I think most people generally understand that Nylander isn't actually doing any negotiating no matter where he is. That's more or less his agent's entire job, something Nylander will probably end up paying him millions of dollars for. Players getting involved in their own negotiations in any meaningful way seems unhelpful at best.

At this point in the process I think the idea that what's missing is some face to face Dubas/Nylander time where they really roll up their sleeves and dig into things would be a hard sell to me.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Now... if Nylander just happened to take a flight to Carolina... THAT would be adding pressure.

Completely disagree. That move would more likely poison the relationship completely with toronto, not strengthen his position. Unless he's already predisposed to leaving.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Completely disagree. That move would more likely poison the relationship completely with toronto, not strengthen his position. Unless he's already predisposed to leaving.

I was being somewhat fictitious with that statement, but it is completely within Nylander's rights to speak to other teams. Dubas really shouldn't get offended if he's taking advantage of those rights.

 

[Kin]

Now... if Nylander just happened to take a flight to Carolina... THAT would be adding pressure.

Completely disagree. That move would more likely poison the relationship completely with toronto, not strengthen his position. Unless he's already predisposed to leaving.

Nylander's a free agent. Dubas had to know that by leaving him unsigned this long that Nylander negotiating with other teams was at least a possibility.

I'm not saying it would add pressure necessarily but I don't get the sense that anyone on the MLSE side of things is emotional enough to the point that Nylander negotiating with another team would drastically change their outlook on the situation.

 

[Bullfrog]

I would never underestimate the local media and fans in their ability to create a weird narrative but I think most people generally understand that Nylander isn't actually doing any negotiating no matter where he is. That's more or less his agent's entire job, something Nylander will probably end up paying him millions of dollars for. Players getting involved in their own negotiations in any meaningful way seems unhelpful at best.

At this point in the process I think the idea that what's missing is some face to face Dubas/Nylander time where they really roll up their sleeves and dig into things would be a hard sell to me.

You're right here, but there's a limit. Similarly with legal representation, the lawyers will generally handle everything while conferring with their client. In civil cases, including contract negotiations, it's not uncommon (in my limited experience at least), that the client periodically attends -- particularly as negotiations near an end -- as they're ultimately the one who says yes/no.

 

[Zee]

I was thinking, in the name of shrewd negotiation, that it might be good for Nylander to get himself to Toronto to put the pressure on.

Actually, that makes a lot of sense. Would certainly shift the pressure substantially.

I think Nylander coming to Toronto might be interpreted as a sign of weakness.  To avoid such signs of weakness, it seems last time they met on neutral ground.  Perhaps Dubas should go to Sweden?

I think they should meet in neutral ground in Italy.  Dubas and Nylander can stroll around cinque terre with some cappuccino and cannolis, take in the sights and come to a deal.

 

[Kin]

You're right here, but there's a limit. Similarly with legal representation, the lawyers will generally handle everything while conferring with their client. In civil cases, including contract negotiations, it's not uncommon (in my limited experience at least), that the client periodically attends -- particularly as negotiations near an end -- as they're ultimately the one who says yes/no.

I think that may be a result of a bit of a gap between the world of millionaire professional athletes and the rest of us though. Any time Nylander spends actively involved in things here is time he's not snorkeling with supermodels off the coast of Atlantis or whatever and he's paying a lot of money to his agents to handle the ugly details.

If this were a more complex negotiation than just two or three numbers(total $, # of years and signing bonus $) I could see the upside of someone like Nylander occasionally showing up to get a clearer grasp on the offer but the issues here are so straightforward that it feels like the sort of thing that would get handled by phone.

I don't want to paint with too broad a brush but most of these athletes are dopes. The large amounts of money they pay to agents is usually all about insulating them from stuff like this. It's why you hear, or used to hear, stories about how players involved in negotiations hurt the process because they took things like "Eh, we don't feel like he's an 8 million dollar player" as a personal insult.

 

[Kin]

I think they should meet in neutral ground in Italy.  Dubas and Nylander can stroll around cinque terre with some cappuccino and cannolis, take in the sights and come to a deal.

It's 6325km from Toronto to Stockholm. Finding truly neutral ground would require a halfway point. After some quick searching I've discovered that the only fair place for a meeting would be Kangerlussuaq, Greenland.

Lucky enough for our purposes there is the Hotel Kangerlussuaq with fully stocked conference rooms:

http://www.hotelkangerlussuaq.gl/conferences/?lang=en

They also have a restaurant that does Muskox carpaccio. Frankly, I don't see how this plan could fail.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I think they should meet in neutral ground in Italy.  Dubas and Nylander can stroll around cinque terre with some cappuccino and cannolis, take in the sights and come to a deal.

It's 6325km from Toronto to Stockholm. Finding truly neutral ground would require a halfway point. After some quick searching I've discovered that the only fair place for a meeting would be Kangerlussuaq, Greenland.

Lucky enough for our purposes there is the Hotel Kangerlussuaq with fully stocked conference rooms:

http://www.hotelkangerlussuaq.gl/conferences/?lang=en

They also have a restaurant that does Muskox carpaccio. Frankly, I don't see how this plan could fail.

The rooms look nice. I agree. This may be the solution the Leafs and Nylander may be looking for.

 

[Frank E]

I think they should meet in neutral ground in Italy.  Dubas and Nylander can stroll around cinque terre with some cappuccino and cannolis, take in the sights and come to a deal.

It's 6325km from Toronto to Stockholm. Finding truly neutral ground would require a halfway point. After some quick searching I've discovered that the only fair place for a meeting would be Kangerlussuaq, Greenland.

Lucky enough for our purposes there is the Hotel Kangerlussuaq with fully stocked conference rooms:

http://www.hotelkangerlussuaq.gl/conferences/?lang=en

They also have a restaurant that does Muskox carpaccio. Frankly, I don't see how this plan could fail.

The rooms look nice. I agree. This may be the solution the Leafs and Nylander may be looking for.

I think the conference rooms looks like an old high school cafeteria.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I think they should meet in neutral ground in Italy.  Dubas and Nylander can stroll around cinque terre with some cappuccino and cannolis, take in the sights and come to a deal.

It's 6325km from Toronto to Stockholm. Finding truly neutral ground would require a halfway point. After some quick searching I've discovered that the only fair place for a meeting would be Kangerlussuaq, Greenland.

Lucky enough for our purposes there is the Hotel Kangerlussuaq with fully stocked conference rooms:

http://www.hotelkangerlussuaq.gl/conferences/?lang=en

They also have a restaurant that does Muskox carpaccio. Frankly, I don't see how this plan could fail.

The rooms look nice. I agree. This may be the solution the Leafs and Nylander may be looking for.

I think the conference rooms looks like an old high school cafeteria.

The perfect place for a $50 million negotiation.

 

[Kin]

The perfect place for a $50 million negotiation.

Exactly. Function over form here. Then, when everything is wrapped up, they can visit the Sondrestom Upper Atmospheric Research Facility which Dubas will like because, you know, he's a nerd.