Jimmy Vesey

[CarltonTheBear]

My guess is it's almost certainly not true. Or at least not in a meaningful way. They might have committed to giving him a crack at a big role in the lineup but they wouldn't have tied their hands guaranteeing one without seeing how it worked out.

You might be/probably are right, but that just goes back to me wondering what the heck Poile is doing crying about this. If this is all strategic to get fans to be mad at Vesey, then it's not working for me. All I hear is "I was counting on an unsigned and untested NHL rookie to be a big playoff contributor instead of acquiring one at the deadline". If I was a Preds fan my anger would be directed at the GM not the player.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Also I don't understand why the media keeps describing this situation as a "loophole". It's a clearly defined provision in the CBA. Also liked Jeff Marek's take on it:

Jeff Marek ‏@JeffMarek
After reading this remember all the players who were told by their GM's they wouldn't be traded only to be...traded.

Jeff Marek ‏@JeffMarek
I get Poile's frustration but GM's keep reminding us this is a business but don't like when it cuts both ways.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I wonder if the Leafs will offer the 2016 3rd round pick since the Leafs have the NJ one.  It would close to the compensation Nashville (pick 61 compared to 31) would have gotten if Vesey had been a 1st round pick and is better than nothing.

Why would the Leafs offer anything for a pending free agent?

Well they did for Hyman, though that depends if you can describe Greg McKegg as "anything".

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Also I don't understand why the media keeps describing this situation as a "loophole". It's a clearly defined provision in the CBA. Also liked Jeff Marek's take on it:

Jeff Marek ‏@JeffMarek
After reading this remember all the players who were told by their GM's they wouldn't be traded only to be...traded.

Jeff Marek ‏@JeffMarek
I get Poile's frustration but GM's keep reminding us this is a business but don't like when it cuts both ways.

And what about any players drafted who were never signed by the team?  Do the teams owe those players like the way some are trying to say Vesey owes the Predators?

 

[bustaheims]

I wonder if the Leafs will offer the 2016 3rd round pick since the Leafs have the NJ one.  It would close to the compensation Nashville (pick 61 compared to 31) would have gotten if Vesey had been a 1st round pick and is better than nothing.

Why would the Leafs offer anything for a pending free agent?

Relationship management - but, we're talking like 5th round pick/depth prospect/unsigned prospect the Leafs aren't intending to sign level assets.

 

[Kin]

You might be/probably are right, but that just goes back to me wondering what the heck Poile is doing crying about this. If this is all strategic to get fans to be mad at Vesey, then it's not working for me. All I hear is "I was counting on an unsigned and untested NHL rookie to be a big playoff contributor instead of acquiring one at the deadline". If I was a Preds fan my anger would be directed at the GM not the player.

You might be underestimating the extent to which some people are just reflexively anti-player in situations like these. Eric Lindros didn't have a contractual obligation to play for the Nordiques, had no obligation to enter into one and it's probably costing him the HOF.

 

[Kin]

Relationship management - but, we're talking like 5th round pick/depth prospect/unsigned prospect the Leafs aren't intending to sign level assets.

Seems unlikely that a GM would let something like that actually affect his relationship with another team. The Ducks still make trades with the Oilers after Justin Schultz.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I wonder if the Leafs will offer the 2016 3rd round pick since the Leafs have the NJ one.  It would close to the compensation Nashville (pick 61 compared to 31) would have gotten if Vesey had been a 1st round pick and is better than nothing.

Why would the Leafs offer anything for a pending free agent?

Relationship management - but, we're talking like 5th round pick/depth prospect/unsigned prospect the Leafs aren't intending to sign level assets.

I would think there would be some other reasons as well - exclusive negotiating window and potentially moving one of the 50 SPCs.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

You might be underestimating the extent to which some people are just reflexively anti-player in situations like these. Eric Lindros didn't have a contractual obligation to play for the Nordiques, had no obligation to enter into one and it's probably costing him the HOF.

Yeah, that's true. And I've looked through a bunch of social media stuff since last night and the overwhelming fan opinion is that Vesey is the bad guy here and should have signed with the team that drafted him. Personally I'll never understand how public opinion always tends to favour the league/teams vs. the PA/players.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Seems unlikely that a GM would let something like that actually affect his relationship with another team. The Ducks still make trades with the Oilers after Justin Schultz.

That didn't have the whole tampering cloud hanging over it though. Like I said I don't think the Preds can really do anything about it, but if giving up a Sam Carrick or even a Percy amounts to hush money almost I'd be fine with that. Neither have a future with the Leafs I don't think.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

You might be underestimating the extent to which some people are just reflexively anti-player in situations like these. Eric Lindros didn't have a contractual obligation to play for the Nordiques, had no obligation to enter into one and it's probably costing him the HOF.

Yeah, that's true. And I've looked through a bunch of social media stuff since last night and the overwhelming fan opinion is that Vesey is the bad guy here and should have signed with the team that drafted him. Personally I'll never understand how public opinion always tends to favour the league/teams vs. the PA/players.

and also...let's be honest...you're a leaf fan.  you want this to happen.  you have a vested interested in him not coming to terms with his current team.

 

[Kin]

Well they did for Hyman, though that depends if you can describe Greg McKegg as "anything".

If you're in a situation where the player is open to signing with a team that trades for him but equally open to not signing with that team if they hit free agency then it makes sense to get that exclusive negotiating window. But if it's fait accompli that the player is signing a certain place if/when they hit free agency or determined to hit free agency regardless it's a different story.

I don't know to what extent the Hyman/Vesey situations are comparable in that regard. 

 

[CarltonTheBear]

and also...let's be honest...you're a leaf fan.  you want this to happen.  you have a vested interested in him not coming to terms with his current team.

That's true, although generally speaking I've always been pro-player. My stance on this wouldn't be any different if Vesey's dad was employed by the Bruins. Anyone who gets a chance to become an UFA in his situation should absolutely do it. They don't owe the team that drafted them anything.

 

[Kin]

Seems unlikely that a GM would let something like that actually affect his relationship with another team. The Ducks still make trades with the Oilers after Justin Schultz.

That didn't have the whole tampering cloud hanging over it though. Like I said I don't think the Preds can really do anything about it, but if giving up a Sam Carrick or even a Percy amounts to hush money almost I'd be fine with that. Neither have a future with the Leafs I don't think.

I guess it's hard for me to see a situation where Poile or whoever would be upset enough by circumstances to let it cloud further dealings with the club but that those feelings would somehow be ameliorated by the sort of inconsequential throw-in you're talking about.

But I guess it could happen. Either way, we're not talking about a 3rd round pick.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I guess it's hard for me to see a situation where Poile or whoever would be upset enough by circumstances to let it cloud further dealings with the club but that those feelings would somehow be ameliorated by the sort of inconsequential throw-in you're talking about.

But I guess it could happen. Either way, we're not talking about a 3rd round pick.

Yeah, to back-up a little bit I don't think this would ruin that relationship either way. My thoughts are more toward whether Nashville makes a stink about this with the league. I just think they'll be less inclined to do so if the Leafs give them something. And yes, that something would not be a 3rd round pick.

 

[Joe S.]

How many fans in Nashville would actually know who vesey is?

 

[Kin]

and also...let's be honest...you're a leaf fan.  you want this to happen.  you have a vested interested in him not coming to terms with his current team.

I don't really think anyone here, least of all someone like CtB, is going to let their feelings on the general obligations between clubs and amateur players boil down to a single situation of self-interest. We all know that what is happening here can just as easily happen to a Leafs pick.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

We all know that what is happening here can just as easily happen to a Leafs pick.

And it did, sorta, with Billy Sweatt. Not that he amounted to anything though.

 

[ZBBM]

But what have the Leafs done here that could even be remotely construed as tampering?  Hiring Vesey's dad?  Maybe, I guess, if he had previously spent his career at A&W selling Papaburgers.

 

[Highlander]

I believe Lou and Bud go back to the time when Christ was in diapers, I can't see something not being worked out to "smoooth" things over. Or maybe Vesey signs with LA cause he likes a tan