Jimmy Vesey

[Frank E]

You might be underestimating the extent to which some people are just reflexively anti-player in situations like these. Eric Lindros didn't have a contractual obligation to play for the Nordiques, had no obligation to enter into one and it's probably costing him the HOF.

Yeah, that's true. And I've looked through a bunch of social media stuff since last night and the overwhelming fan opinion is that Vesey is the bad guy here and should have signed with the team that drafted him. Personally I'll never understand how public opinion always tends to favour the league/teams vs. the PA/players.

I'm not sure I'd describe Nashville fans as "the public".

I think any time that one of your highly touted prospects opts to leave your team's system, or just not sign at all, you're likely to be unhappy about no matter if it's properly permitted. 

I don't think NYI fans are up in arms about Vesey opting to be a FA.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

You might be underestimating the extent to which some people are just reflexively anti-player in situations like these. Eric Lindros didn't have a contractual obligation to play for the Nordiques, had no obligation to enter into one and it's probably costing him the HOF.

Yeah, that's true. And I've looked through a bunch of social media stuff since last night and the overwhelming fan opinion is that Vesey is the bad guy here and should have signed with the team that drafted him. Personally I'll never understand how public opinion always tends to favour the league/teams vs. the PA/players.

I'm not sure I'd describe Nashville fans as "the public".

I think any time that one of your highly touted prospects opts to leave your team's system, or just not sign at all, you're likely to be unhappy about no matter if it's properly permitted. 

I don't think NYI fans are up in arms about Vesey opting to be a FA.

The threads on Reddit's hockey forum about it have pretty overwhelmingly critical comments towards Vesey and most who post on the hockey forum there have the logo of the team they cheer for as part of their username.  It's more than just Nashville fans dumping on him.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The threads on Reddi's hockey forum about it have pretty overwhelmingly critical comments towards Vesey and most who post on the hockey forum there have the logo of the team they cheer for as part of their username.  It's more than just Nashville fans dumping on him.

Yeah, Frank's underestimating people's abilities to get upset at things even when it has absolutely nothing to do with them. I've seen plenty of random fans saying they hope Vesey busts because of this.

 

[herman]

I understand the butthurt, but not seeing the big deal here.

Drafting a player merely means you have negotiation rights to signing that player to a contract.

Plan accordingly.

 

[Kin]

I think any time that one of your highly touted prospects opts to leave your team's system, or just not sign at all, you're likely to be unhappy about no matter if it's properly permitted.

Nobody expects Nashville fans to be happy about the situation, it's a bad break for them, but where it wanders into being nonsensical is to jump from "this didn't work out well for the team" to "Jimmy Vesey screwed us" or whatever. I mean, Vesey was never a prospect of "theirs" to begin with.

 
I don't think NYI fans are up in arms about Vesey opting to be a FA.

It wasn't just Nordiques fans with Lindros opinions, it's not just Predators fans who don't really understand the draft here.

 

[lamajama]

It all depends on who's ox is getting gored. I'd be peed off if I was a fan of Nashville, but am hopeful being a
fan of the Leafs as we need more players to have more a chance of success. Vesey may be a bust no matter where
he goes but if he's not.....

And Boston is reportedly in this mix very strongly as well. It's no done deal.

And the only way I'd move a player is a player who is no longer in the plans and the Leaf's gain a contract spot. Unlikely
why Nashville would want that kind of a player however.

I'm a little more interested in what the NHL is going to do regarding "tampering". They have stuck it to the Leafs in
the past. Of course, we didn't have Lou to present the Leaf's side.

 

[L K]

You might be underestimating the extent to which some people are just reflexively anti-player in situations like these. Eric Lindros didn't have a contractual obligation to play for the Nordiques, had no obligation to enter into one and it's probably costing him the HOF.

Yeah, that's true. And I've looked through a bunch of social media stuff since last night and the overwhelming fan opinion is that Vesey is the bad guy here and should have signed with the team that drafted him. Personally I'll never understand how public opinion always tends to favour the league/teams vs. the PA/players.

Stupid/greedy/spoiled/lazy rich players are front and center.  The hard done by millionaires/billionaires who own the teams are not. Therefore the players are the ones who are "flashing" their money around.

 

[bustaheims]

I would think there would be some other reasons as well - exclusive negotiating window and potentially moving one of the 50 SPCs.

Those would be factors as well, yeah. The current Leafs management team have definitely shown an affinity for including long-shot prospects under contract in deals.

 

[Tigger]

If he's really set on signing here, I imagine we'll see a similar deal to how the Leafs picked up Hyman - a depth prospect or a late pick to Nashville so they can say they got something for him. Relationship management and such.

So far Poile is saying this:

@TeresaMWalker

Poile says he believes Vesey has received bad advice and bad counsel ... #Preds GM says not giving up rights to Vesey until deadline.

Burn that Jimmy...

 

[rdowdall]

So there is this:

http://mynhltraderumors.com/jimmy-vesey-tells-the-nashville-predators-he-s-not-signing/2016/03/29/

?Every indication was that he was going to sign with us,? Poile said. ?His dad had told me, had told (Predators coach) Peter Laviolette, Scott Nichol, Paul Fenton, that his son was going to sign with us. And Jimmy himself told Paul Fenton prior to the trade deadline, which was an important time for us because it was our last opportunity to change our team. We told him if he was going to sign with us we were going to keep a position available for him, and he told us that he was going to sign with us.?

This paints Vesey in a bad light.  However, if you are a GM, and you make a plan based on what *might* happen, isn't that kind of on you?

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

So there is this:

http://mynhltraderumors.com/jimmy-vesey-tells-the-nashville-predators-he-s-not-signing/2016/03/29/

?Every indication was that he was going to sign with us,? Poile said. ?His dad had told me, had told (Predators coach) Peter Laviolette, Scott Nichol, Paul Fenton, that his son was going to sign with us. And Jimmy himself told Paul Fenton prior to the trade deadline, which was an important time for us because it was our last opportunity to change our team. We told him if he was going to sign with us we were going to keep a position available for him, and he told us that he was going to sign with us.?

This paints Vesey in a bad light.  However, if you are a GM, and you make a plan based on what *might* happen, isn't that kind of on you?

It totally is.  I think that's why Polie is so ticked off.  He screwed up.  Also who doesn't come up with a backup plan for a guy who's never played a game in the NHL that they were now just going to slot in for the playoffs?  Doesn't that seem something akin to absurd?  Like maybe this guy is absolutely amazing but it still seems like a pretty big IF.  You haven't seen this guy play against NHLers and on top of that the games tend to be a bit tougher in the playoffs.  Seems like sink or swim time and you've been thrown into the deepend.  Like if Vessey didn't immediately swim what was the GM going to say?  That it was Vesey's fault? 

 

[Tigger]

Poile screwed up, sure, but airing dirty laundry makes it worse, he should shut it. I don't really care if any player says they'll sign, until they do, you got nothing.

...and this isn't a 'loophole', rules for NCAA players have been around for quite a while, it's part of the risk. Maybe the league could expand the compensatory pick past the first round or something but really, it's old news. Also, I think he's headed to Boston but even if he goes to the Leafs, unless they have emails/texts or similar proof, any talk of tampering is far fetched at best.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

also does anyone really buy the idea that they didn't even look around at the deadline because they wanted to save this guy a spot?  that if the right offer on the right player had of come up that they wouldn't have jumped at it?  I feel like that's very unlikely and if the GM is that shortsighted I really question his abilities in that position.

 

[bustaheims]

This paints Vesey in a bad light.

Which was obviously the intention, which makes me wonder how strictly accurate it is. My guess is Vesey gave a more nuanced response to Nashville - that he was leaning towards signing or that he expected to, etc. I also wouldn't take his father's word for gospel, either. He's reporting things 2nd hand. Things get lost in translation, and situations change. His father doesn't know what Jimmy's thinking at all times. I get that Poile is upset, but, really, he only has himself to blame for structuring his deadline plans around an unsigned prospect.

 

[Tigger]

His father shouldn't be speaking for him at all.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Which was obviously the intention, which makes me wonder how strictly accurate it is. My guess is Vesey gave a more nuanced response to Nashville - that he was leaning towards signing or that he expected to, etc. I also wouldn't take his father's word for gospel, either. He's reporting things 2nd hand. Things get lost in translation, and situations change. His father doesn't know what Jimmy's thinking at all times. I get that Poile is upset, but, really, he only has himself to blame for structuring his deadline plans around an unsigned prospect.

We haven't even heard Vesey's side of the story yet, and my guess is regardless of what happened he'll do the smart thing and just not really comment on it.

But even if he did tell Nashville he would sign, whatever. Nothing's official until it's official. And I'm stealing this joke from twitter, but "22-year old college student changes mind about major life decision" reads like an Onion headline.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Which was obviously the intention, which makes me wonder how strictly accurate it is. My guess is Vesey gave a more nuanced response to Nashville - that he was leaning towards signing or that he expected to, etc. I also wouldn't take his father's word for gospel, either. He's reporting things 2nd hand. Things get lost in translation, and situations change. His father doesn't know what Jimmy's thinking at all times. I get that Poile is upset, but, really, he only has himself to blame for structuring his deadline plans around an unsigned prospect.

We haven't even heard Vesey's side of the story yet, and my guess is regardless of what happened he'll do the smart thing and just not really comment on it.

But even if he did tell Nashville he would sign, whatever. Nothing's official until it's official. And I'm stealing this joke from twitter, but "22-year old college student changes mind about major life decision" reads like an Onion headline.

I love all the people saying "but Nashville invited him to their development camps and their staff helped him develop his game during college!"  So what?  They knew or should have known that this was a possibility.  If he had a serious injury this season would they still have signed him out of "owing him"?

 

[ZBBM]

I agree with all these comments but I do think Nashville fans have every reason to be pissed. This doesn't happen very often, after all.

 

[Tigger]

I agree with all these comments but I do think Nashville fans have every reason to be pissed. This doesn't happen very often, after all.

Sure, but maybe they should direct their ire towards the main culprit, Poile.

 

[Kin]

I agree with all these comments but I do think Nashville fans have every reason to be pissed. This doesn't happen very often, after all.

It doesn't happen often but it happens enough that no fan should see a draft choice as automatically being a part of the team that drafted him. Jimmy Vesey is not a member of the Nashville predators organization. He never was. His decision doesn't make the team or organization weaker. Jimmy Vesey was never obligated to sign with the team that drafted him. If thinking he was is the basis for being "pissed off" then that's a result of a fan not understanding the draft, not anything Vesey did.