Kyle Dubas not returning as GM

[Bill33]

Shanahan's presser was some of the craziest shit that's ever come down at mlse. People will be talking about this for years.

What I took from the situation:
1) They wanted to extend him before the playoffs even started
2) They didn't have anything even approaching a plan b
3) The longer Dubas could string this out, the better he thought his bargaining position would be due to very near term player decisions with contract clauses, extensions, etc, and probably knowledge of 2)
4) He ultimately flew too close to the sun, pissed Shanahan off, and it became a battle of egos

I think I've lot a bit of respect for everyone involved.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Not by what Shanahan says he told Dubas last off-season. 

"The timeline on the Kyle Dubas contract ? I suppose you could go back to last offseason. I approached Kyle in his office at the Ford Performance Center and explained to him that he would be not receiving a contract offer prior to his final year of his contract. I tried to reassure him that it wasn't a reflection of his future with the club. I reminded him that it was a situation I found myself in a few years prior as well and that it was my hope and my intention that after the end of the year ? after being judged for the full five years of his contract ? we would be extending him and moving forward."

Not giving him a contract offer prior to the final year of his contract, which is incredibly standard in the world of sports management (that or just firing them at that point), is the definition of stringing him along for me. Though yes, Dubas then basically repaid the favour.

 

[Kin]

After putting my conspiracy theory hat on I wonder if Dubas was basically trying to make a play where his new contract could eventually transition him to the President position after Shanny's deal is done (2025) and Pridham would then take over the GM role.

Not sure if I see a situation where the board is unhappy enough with Shanny to move on but happy enough with Dubas to give him the job.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

As far as I'm concerned this franchise goes as far as Auston Matthews takes them. If a new GM can get him signed, then I'll be perfectly content watching the new management's plan play out. I don't think Kyle Dubas is the only GM on the planet who can have success with an Auston Matthews-led team.

If part of the fallout from this though is that Matthews is less inclined to sign an extension prior to the upcoming season... then someone messed up badly.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

After putting my conspiracy theory hat on I wonder if Dubas was basically trying to make a play where his new contract could eventually transition him to the President position after Shanny's deal is done (2025) and Pridham would then take over the GM role.

Not sure if I see a situation where the board is unhappy enough with Shanny to move on but happy enough with Dubas to give him the job.

I guess my thinking was if Dubas had 1 or 2 really, really successful years prior to 2025 then would you really need Brendan Shanahan watching over him? Or after 7 years of being the GM could Dubas have been in line for a promotion at that point. Especially with all the talk about other teams potentially being willing to offer him a President+GM gig right now.

 

[Bill33]

I wonder if Dubas saying to the effect of "Maple Leafs or nothing" earlier is still what he'll stick with.

 

[Kin]

I guess my thinking was if Dubas had 1 or 2 really, really successful years prior to 2025 then would you really need Brendan Shanahan watching over him? Or after 7 years of being the GM could Dubas have been in line for a promotion at that point. Especially with all the talk about other teams potentially being willing to offer him a President+GM gig right now.

I mean, I don't think it's impossible but that's still a situation where the last 7 years don't convince the board that Shanahan isn't the guy they need but two successful years would. I feel like successful organizations aren't super quick to want to make big changes, especially if the people involved don't want it.

 

[Bender]

Not by what Shanahan says he told Dubas last off-season. 

"The timeline on the Kyle Dubas contract ? I suppose you could go back to last offseason. I approached Kyle in his office at the Ford Performance Center and explained to him that he would be not receiving a contract offer prior to his final year of his contract. I tried to reassure him that it wasn't a reflection of his future with the club. I reminded him that it was a situation I found myself in a few years prior as well and that it was my hope and my intention that after the end of the year ? after being judged for the full five years of his contract ? we would be extending him and moving forward."

Not giving him a contract offer prior to the final year of his contract, which is incredibly standard in the world of sports management (that or just firing them at that point), is the definition of stringing him along for me. Though yes, Dubas then basically repaid the favour.

Even if they strung him along during the season he was given a contract commitment before the trade deadline and Kyle said he was amenable. These aren't similar, and just bad negotiating on Dubas'part.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I mean, I don't think it's impossible but that's still a situation where the last 7 years don't convince the board that Shanahan isn't the guy they need but two successful years would. I feel like successful organizations aren't super quick to want to make big changes, especially if the people involved don't want it.

That's fair. I'm just some Joe Schmo speculating about the upper level inner workings of a $2B organization so naturally I might be over simplifying things.

But I do think it's pretty reasonable to say that at some point in time, maybe right now or maybe in 2 years that Kyle Dubas would not have just been content with being the #2 person running a hockey team and that feeling played some role in him departing the organization.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Even if they strung him along during the season he was given a contract commitment before the trade deadline and Kyle said he was amenable. These aren't similar, and just bad negotiating on Dubas'part.

To be clear, Shanny's version of events is that after the trade deadline the Leafs wanted to open negotiations for a new contract and Dubas was good with that as long as his agent was handling everything on his end. There wasn't a "contract commitment", it was a commitment to negotiate a contract.

It wasn't until after the Leafs were eliminated that Dubas and Shanny actually spoke about the contract and all Shanahan said about that was Dubas "seemed fine or seemed pleased to receive that news so quickly".

I think Dubas coming back and asking for even more after allowing his agent to speak for him all that time isn't really great, and pretty clearly backfired on him, but it's not as if he shook Shanahan's hand on a contract prior to that or anything.

 

[Bill_Berg]

As far as I'm concerned this franchise goes as far as Auston Matthews takes them. If a new GM can get him signed, then I'll be perfectly content watching the new management's plan play out. I don't think Kyle Dubas is the only GM on the planet who can have success with an Auston Matthews-led team.

If part of the fallout from this though is that Matthews is less inclined to sign an extension prior to the upcoming season... then someone messed up badly.

Yeah I'm on this page. Keeping Matthews is priority 1, everything else is tied for 10th.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/mostlyleafies/status/1659656680760549388

 

[herman]

Dubas got Ryan O?Reilly?d

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

I wonder if Shanny got an extra couple hundo every time he said "Ford Performance Centre". 

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/pierrevlebrun/status/1659677061462601729
Jeez

https://twitter.com/mikeystephens81/status/1659678463026921476
Louise

 

[Bender]

Spezza resigned... that stings.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Well shit. Spezza gone? Everyone pissed? I bet at least one of the core 4 is done with MLSE too. Probably Matthews.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Spezza resigned... that stings.

No it speaks volumes to how Spezza feels Dubas has been treated here. That's what it says to me. Word on the street is he gave them the dbl fingers on the way out. This is a horrible look for Shanny and the Leafs.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Spezza resigned... that stings.

No it speaks volumes to how Spezza feels Dubas has been treated here. That's what it says to me. Word on the street is he gave them the dbl fingers on the way out. This is a horrible look for Shanny and the Leafs.

Yeah I can't help but agree. There's a path here for Shanahan to be another villan in Leafs land. He better know wtf he's doing here, but it sure doesn't look like it.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Spezza resigned... that stings.

No it speaks volumes to how Spezza feels Dubas has been treated here. That's what it says to me. Word on the street is he gave them the dbl fingers on the way out. This is a horrible look for Shanny and the Leafs.

Yeah I can't help but agree. There's a path here for Shanahan to be another villan in Leafs land. He better know wtf he's doing here, but it sure doesn't look like it.

And if this pisses off the players, which I'm betting it will because they all loved Vintage, this team is going to take a huge step back if said players aren't willing to sign extensions.