Marlies Training Camp Thread

[maplesyrup]

Killed him with kindness. Clever AND classy of him... Kudos.

Sarge, I disagree.  To me, Eakins comes off looking sardonic.  He shouldn't have responded at all.  Plus, as I've stated, he should have eaten his humble pie because he was wrong to have used the media as a forum for emabarrasing a what seems to be young and immature player.

You might be right... Maybe saying nothing at all was the true high road. Still, I'm rather happy with the way he handled the press there... beats a "no comment."

 

[Andy007]

Killed him with kindness. Clever AND classy of him... Kudos.

Sarge, I disagree.  To me, Eakins comes off looking sardonic.  He shouldn't have responded at all.  Plus, as I've stated, he should have eaten his humble pie because he was wrong to have used the media as a forum for emabarrasing a what seems to be young and immature player.

Cherry blasted him, why shouldn't he respond? Eakins made some valid points without sounding childish or snarky. Kudos to him.

 

[lamajama]

Killed him with kindness. Clever AND classy of him... Kudos.

Sarge, I disagree.  To me, Eakins comes off looking sardonic.  He shouldn't have responded at all.  Plus, as I've stated, he should have eaten his humble pie because he was wrong to have used the media as a forum for emabarrasing a what seems to be young and immature player.

Cherry blasted him, why shouldn't he respond? Eakins made some valid points without sounding childish or snarky. Kudos to him.

As did Cherry. MLSE is treating Kadri like crap. Eakins could have avoided the whole issue by the usual bafflegarb - but he didn't. I hope when Kadri gets traded in the Luongo deal that he comes back and shoves it up BB's behind.

 

[Kin]

But given Wilson and Burke's, shall we say, candid remarks regarding various facets of Kadri's game, it certainly looks like there is some sort of intentional approach going on here.

But I think you've sort of hit the nail on the head here. This looks intentional.

Let's not forget, Kadri has been in the organization for three years. He's spent the better part of the past two seasons on the Marlies. Kadri's bad habits, if they're persistent, aren't going to be first noticed and addressed at this year's training camp.

The way this reads to me, anyway, is that what Eakins did was a result of frustration or an intentional plan to try and put the issue to the public. On the surface, yeah, this is something they should be dealing with internally but let's be real. They have. I can guarantee that if Kadri's conditioning was an issue last year that they told him so and told him to report to camp in better shape.

So when he doesn't what should the team do? Just repeat themselves? Regardless of whether or not this was an intentional ploy by Eakins to address Kadri or a burst of spontaneous frustration at some point the Leafs have to change what they're doing if what they're doing isn't working. Airing it out in public isn't maybe the most artful way to go about things but what else do they have at their disposal? A shock collar that goes off everytime he utters the phrase "...and a dozen timbits"?

Kadri isn't 18. He's 22. Contrary to how Cherry has presented this the Leafs have given Kadri a pretty good opportunity to show his stuff at the big club level and if he deserved to stick, he would have.

I don't know that the way Eakins dealt with the issue in the media is the right way necessarily but that's something I'm not super-comfortable armchair quarterbacking without knowing the ways they've tried to deal with the issue internally.

 

[caver]

I think Eakins' comments left him in a pretty good light. The press is making a mountain out of a molehill here and Cherry got sucked into it.

 

[moon111]

If I hired a young guy for our construction company, trained him to operate equipment, made him an apprentice, etc... and he became a drunk who I couldn't use, I'd be pretty disappointed.  If he thought he was something special, I'd knock him off his pedestal as well.  More important then Kadri, is how it'll affect the organization.  Kadri playing in the NHL, discourages all those young guys that are giving it 110%.  I'd personally try to trade him.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Whether or not putting it in the media was a ploy of Eakins(I'd like to think it was because he's a tool if not), I don't know too many people that respond well from being publicly embarrassed.

If Kadri's body fat % is an issue, then it should be addressed, but talking to the media is an idiotic ploy. I'd say it sounds like a Wellwood situation, just not as extreme. 

 

[Champ Kind]

But given Wilson and Burke's, shall we say, candid remarks regarding various facets of Kadri's game, it certainly looks like there is some sort of intentional approach going on here.

But I think you've sort of hit the nail on the head here. This looks intentional.

Let's not forget, Kadri has been in the organization for three years. He's spent the better part of the past two seasons on the Marlies. Kadri's bad habits, if they're persistent, aren't going to be first noticed and addressed at this year's training camp.

The way this reads to me, anyway, is that what Eakins did was a result of frustration or an intentional plan to try and put the issue to the public. On the surface, yeah, this is something they should be dealing with internally but let's be real. They have. I can guarantee that if Kadri's conditioning was an issue last year that they told him so and told him to report to camp in better shape.

So when he doesn't what should the team do? Just repeat themselves? Regardless of whether or not this was an intentional ploy by Eakins to address Kadri or a burst of spontaneous frustration at some point the Leafs have to change what they're doing if what they're doing isn't working. Airing it out in public isn't maybe the most artful way to go about things but what else do they have at their disposal? A shock collar that goes off everytime he utters the phrase "...and a dozen timbits"?

Kadri isn't 18. He's 22. Contrary to how Cherry has presented this the Leafs have given Kadri a pretty good opportunity to show his stuff at the big club level and if he deserved to stick, he would have.

I don't know that the way Eakins dealt with the issue in the media is the right way necessarily but that's something I'm not super-comfortable armchair quarterbacking without knowing the ways they've tried to deal with the issue internally.

I guess my point is that the issue should remain internal regardless of what's precipitated this, what has been done or, better yet, what hasn't been done to this point.  If the player is not responding, if the player is not what you want or expected, then move the player.  Look, I've argued in favour of the Burke has developed and nurtured the perception of being a "player's manager".  I think that what he's done in honour of Brendan Burke, the schmaltzy extended holiday trade freeze, the way he'll give players an opportunity to play (see Bryzgalov in Anaheim) when one might not be present on his team, etc.  But the PUBLIC treatment of Kadri just stinks, no way around it. 

I'll offer my personally developed conspiracy theory here, which has no basis in anything other than my logically reasoning throught this whole mess.  Kadri gets drafted with lots - LOTS - of fanfare.  The big "Well, we're taking Kadri" F-U to Bryan Murray, the big seasons in the OHL, nearly making the team out of camp, and on an on.  To boot, the kid comes across as cocky, brash, overly confident, and quite presumptuous.  Nik, I am sure these, um, "warts", have been addressed internally.  And, obviously, Kadri has not responded.  So, management has taken the tact of attempting to publically embarass him, maybe as a way of humbling a young player who hasn't earned the right to strut around like 'cock of the walk'...yet. 

Anyway, this is not an approach I would take.  I don't think this sets a good tone for the organization.  I don't think this presents the organization in a good light.  And, given the recent Allaire situation, makes me think a bit more strongly that there may indeed be something rotten in the state of Denmark.

 

[Rebel_1812]

Whether or not putting it in the media was a ploy of Eakins(I'd like to think it was because he's a tool if not), I don't know too many people that respond well from being publicly embarrassed.

If Kadri's body fat % is an issue, then it should be addressed, but talking to the media is an idiotic ploy. I'd say it sounds like a Wellwood situation, just not as extreme.

Yeah, Wellwood seemed pretty in shape with the Jets.

 

[Kin]

I guess my point is that the issue should remain internal regardless of what's precipitated this, what has been done or, better yet, what hasn't been done to this point.  If the player is not responding, if the player is not what you want or expected, then move the player.

I disagree. I think that's a decent and fair attitude to have, maybe, but I think the Leafs do need to be a little more self-serving here.

The Leafs need top quality players. Realistically, the trade and FA markets being what they are, they're going to need to develop those players. I don't think the Leafs, with one of their few high ceiling prospects, can leaf any avenue unexplored. Will going public like this work where staying private won't? Impossible to say. I will say, however, that if the Leafs feel like they've exhausted their internal methods of dealing with the problem and putting the issue in the public has even a 1 in 100 or 1 in a 1000 attempt to get him in line, they need to take that shot. That's how desperate they are for real front line talent.

If it doesn't work? He doesn't develop. But he won't if he doesn't address the problem either. Unless you think that they could deal him for someone else with a similar ceiling, which seems unlikely if he's widely seen as a disappointment with a conditioning problem, they really do need to try anything they can to coax Kadri into being what they thought he'd be.

Understand, I'm not necessarily presenting the mirror of what you're saying. I don't know if this is the route I'd have gone either. All I'm saying is that without knowing what they've done internally, I can't criticize the decision as I can see why it would be an approach to take.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Whether or not putting it in the media was a ploy of Eakins(I'd like to think it was because he's a tool if not), I don't know too many people that respond well from being publicly embarrassed.

If Kadri's body fat % is an issue, then it should be addressed, but talking to the media is an idiotic ploy. I'd say it sounds like a Wellwood situation, just not as extreme.

Yeah, Wellwood seemed pretty in shape with the Jets.

I think Wellwood's 'success' the last couple of seasons was the result using him in roles that he could handle. Toronto wanted his playmaking skills to somehow translate into speed and agressiveness. That wasn't going to happen with Wellwood.

 

[caver]

I really disagreed with Ron Wilson's public comments on Kadri, but I don't agree that Eakins' comments are the same. He answered a question in a reporter's scrum and used the word "unacceptable". Not throwing him under the bus by any stretch. Where Cherry got the "chubby" and "fatso" thing is beyond me.

 

[Champ Kind]

I really disagreed with Ron Wilson's public comments on Kadri, but I don't agree that Eakins' comments are the same. He answered a question in a reporter's scrum and used the word "unacceptable". Not throwing him under the bus by any stretch. Where Cherry got the "chubby" and "fatso" thing is beyond me.

Agree that Cherry took it to the lowest common denominator, but it is sort of a logical progression to make.  Also, Eakins went into a lot more detail and didn't simply leave it with "unacceptable".  He proceeded to elaborate.

 

[Champ Kind]

I think the Leafs do need to be a little more self-serving here.

If it doesn't work? He doesn't develop. But he won't if he doesn't address the problem either. Unless you think that they could deal him for someone else with a similar ceiling, which seems unlikely if he's widely seen as a disappointment with a conditioning problem, they really do need to try anything they can to coax Kadri into being what they thought he'd be.

I'm not sure this sort of public scolding has any merit as a development tool.  While the context is different, I'm reminded of the Albert Haynesworth saga after he signed the massive FA deal with the Redskins in 2009.  Shanahan called him, called him fat, out of shape, yada yada yada.  I felt it irresponsible and mean-spirited at the time.  I feel the same way about the Kadri situation now.  I just find it unprofessional and doesn't - or, rather, it shouldn't - reflect well on the organization or individuals making the comments.

Though, as I think about this more than I should be, I wonder if, possibly, this whole body composition thing is a subtle shot at Gary Roberts.

 

[Kin]

I'm not sure this sort of public scolding has any merit as a development tool. While the context is different, I'm reminded of the Albert Haynesworth saga after he signed the massive FA deal with the Redskins in 2009.  Shanahan called him, called him fat, out of shape, yada yada yada.  I felt it irresponsible and mean-spirited at the time.

Well, I mean, if we want to go into very different contexts I could point to Col. Jacob Rupert publicly scolding Babe Ruth after his disappointing 1925 season, telling him to clean up his act. After which Ruth led the league in homeruns and OPS for 6 years straight. Or Billy Martin pulling Reggie Jackson from a game for not hustling and yelling at him in the dugout and then going on to win the 1977 World Series.

Like I said, if it's a one in a thousand chance I'd take it instead of giving up on him.

  I feel the same way about the Kadri situation now.  I just find it unprofessional and doesn't - or, rather, it shouldn't - reflect well on the organization or individuals making the comments.

Though, as I think about this more than I should be, I wonder if, possibly, this whole body composition thing is a subtle shot at Gary Roberts.
[/quote]

 

[Bender]

Whether or not putting it in the media was a ploy of Eakins(I'd like to think it was because he's a tool if not), I don't know too many people that respond well from being publicly embarrassed.

If Kadri's body fat % is an issue, then it should be addressed, but talking to the media is an idiotic ploy. I'd say it sounds like a Wellwood situation, just not as extreme.

Yeah, Wellwood seemed pretty in shape with the Jets.

I think Wellwood's 'success' the last couple of seasons was the result using him in roles that he could handle. Toronto wanted his playmaking skills to somehow translate into speed and agressiveness. That wasn't going to happen with Wellwood.

I don't know where you got that. Tbh, Toronto wanted him to stop not giving a fuck about fitness.

 

[lamajama]

I hate to bring the Wings organization into it but I suppose that you
could consider them the classiest or most highly thought-of in the league - and you don't see them publicly slamming their top prospect nor engaging in
name-calling with ex-coaches. Perhaps the scrutiny of the press is the difference but it's getting harder to perceive the improvements BB has brought the organization. UFA's certainly don't.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't know where you got that. Tbh, Toronto wanted him to stop not giving a Frig about fitness.

They also wanted him to play a smarter team game rather than showing off his fancy solo moves - or, at least, Quinn did for the brief time he was Wellwood's coach.

 

[Bender]

I hate to bring the Wings organization into it but I suppose that you
could consider them the classiest or most highly thought-of in the league - and you don't see them publicly slamming their top prospect nor engaging in
name-calling with ex-coaches. Perhaps the scrutiny of the press is the difference but it's getting harder to perceive the improvements BB has brought the organization. UFA's certainly don't.

No. Devellano only called the players cattle. Real classy. Maybe we should look at the Wings with more than just the rose coloured glasses that we seem to have on.

 

[caver]

I hate to bring the Wings organization into it but I suppose that you
could consider them the classiest or most highly thought-of in the league - and you don't see them publicly slamming their top prospect nor engaging in
name-calling with ex-coaches. Perhaps the scrutiny of the press is the difference but it's getting harder to perceive the improvements BB has brought the organization. UFA's certainly don't.

No. Devellano only called the players cattle. Real classy. Maybe we should look at the Wings with more than just the rose coloured glasses that we seem to have on.

Agreed!