Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

[GhostofPotvin29]

Man, would there ever be a lot of upset people around here if Carlyle wasn't fired...

Meh.

McDavid/Eichel 2015.

Kessel/Bernier too good to get into those sweepstakes, even with Dandy Randy.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Kessel/Bernier too good to get into those sweepstakes, even with Dandy Randy.

I'm not entirely serious of course, but a bad break here or there injury/performance wise and we could be a little deeper in the lottery conversation.

 

[Redleaf]

Man, would there ever be a lot of upset people around here if Carlyle wasn't fired...

Meh.

McDavid/Eichel 2015.

Kessel/Bernier too good to get into those sweepstakes, even with Dandy Randy.

They weren't good enough this year to avoid getting a shot at first overall through the lottery. I certainly wouldn't call it out if the question.

 

[Bullfrog]

Man, would there ever be a lot of upset people around here if Carlyle wasn't fired...

I will for sure. That was one ugly season of hockey.

 

[bustaheims]

Kessel/Bernier too good to get into those sweepstakes, even with Dandy Randy.

Probably, but, a little more regression here, a little more roster shaping to Randy's out of date style there . . . toss an almost certain drop off in shootout success (as has been the case with every other team that had a really successful shoot out season - expect the Leafs to be closer  to .500 in it next season) and they might not be all that far out of it.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Kessel/Bernier too good to get into those sweepstakes, even with Dandy Randy.

Probably, but, a little more regression here, a little more roster shaping to Randy's out of date style there . . . toss an almost certain drop off in shootout success (as has been the case with every other team that had a really successful shoot out season - expect the Leafs to be closer  to .500 in it next season) and they might not be all that far out of it.

Maybe.  I was thinking in terms of possession it would be hard to get worse than they were, they've already given up a record number of shots in a season...I don't know how much further they could fall, and I think Bernier would prevent them from falling that far (I don't consider a 2% #1 chance or whatever like this season to be a lottery team either).  That's not accounting for an injury to Bernier or whatever.  Would just be difficult to be that bad again with this roster.

 

[Redleaf]

Man, would there ever be a lot of upset people around here if Carlyle wasn't fired...

I will for sure. That was one ugly season of hockey.

It was an ugly finish for sure. Without rehashing the whole 'Randy was the problem' argument for the millionth time, Brendan Shanahan could just as easily blame the players for the teams downfall this season and not the coach, when he completes his assessment of the club and what went wrong this year.

Personally, I'm leaning toward there being a coaching change this off season, but not because Shanahan concludes that coaching was the main reason for the collapse. I can see him pinning lots of blame on the players and their lack of compete level. I'm dying to hear his full, detailed report. (if we get access to it that is)

 

[Highlander]

Yes fantasize about the tank, but it ain't going to happen, as you know Leweike wants a winner and does not suffer fools, he is wise enought to hire the best people around him, witness the Raptors and Reds already.  Yes hockey is another game altogether with the cap, but the culture is a changing and I finally think we have the right guys above to guide this ship.

 

[Redleaf]

Kessel/Bernier too good to get into those sweepstakes, even with Dandy Randy.

Probably, but, a little more regression here, a little more roster shaping to Randy's out of date style there . . . toss an almost certain drop off in shootout success (as has been the case with every other team that had a really successful shoot out season - expect the Leafs to be closer  to .500 in it next season) and they might not be all that far out of it.

Maybe.  I was thinking in terms of possession it would be hard to get worse than they were, they've already given up a record number of shots in a season...I don't know how much further they could fall, and I think Bernier would prevent them from falling that far (I don't consider a 2% #1 chance or whatever like this season to be a lottery team either).  That's not accounting for an injury to Bernier or whatever.  Would just be difficult to be that bad again with this roster.

It also worries me when I hear people say it couldn't get worse. It can always get worse. There is no magical floor that stops a team from sliding down further, just because they've already taken a slide. Injuries alone could send this squad into an irreversible tailspin next season. We don't know that won't happen.

I'm hoping some personnel changes will effect this club in a positive way and this change in 'culture' I keep hearing about will take hold, and push this team forward next season. But if that doesn't work, it 'could' still get worse.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Kessel/Bernier too good to get into those sweepstakes, even with Dandy Randy.

Probably, but, a little more regression here, a little more roster shaping to Randy's out of date style there . . . toss an almost certain drop off in shootout success (as has been the case with every other team that had a really successful shoot out season - expect the Leafs to be closer  to .500 in it next season) and they might not be all that far out of it.

Maybe.  I was thinking in terms of possession it would be hard to get worse than they were, they've already given up a record number of shots in a season...I don't know how much further they could fall, and I think Bernier would prevent them from falling that far (I don't consider a 2% #1 chance or whatever like this season to be a lottery team either).  That's not accounting for an injury to Bernier or whatever.  Would just be difficult to be that bad again with this roster.

It also worries me when I hear people say it couldn't get worse.

lol

EDIT: Let me clarify my lulz - I didn't say they couldn't get worse.  I said it would be difficult to be worse than how badly they were outshot, and how badly they were possession-wise.  It would be difficult for NHL players to drop further below those numbers, as they are among the lowest of the low - so even the worst teams have been around those numbers.  Unless Glenn Healy straps the pads on I think it would be quite the feat to be that bad again with a roster that shouldn't be that bad.

 

[Rebel_1812]

We can all agree that the team needs to be better defensively.  That is exactly what carlyle said he was preaching all year.  If only the players responded to that message.  If the players don't play for now two coaches, maybe we need to change the core players.

The players played as if they tuned Carlyle out so they were not listening to his message.

They also tuned out wilson and maurice before that.  Playing bad defensively in toronto has been around since the first lockout.

 

[Rebel_1812]

Rosie DiManno says Carlyle isn't getting fired:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2014/04/15/blame_delusional_players_not_randy_carlyle_for_leafs_collapse_dimanno.html

I love it when the media reaffirms my stance by having the least reputable of their brethren spew out a bunch of crap. Carlyle is done with the Leafs.

I know that there were insinuations about how she got her position, but it amazes me that with the messed up state of the newspaper industry as it is; someone who writes as poorly as she does, that can't write a balanced piece to save her life is not only someone with job security, but someone who seems to get to write about whatever the hell she feels like regardless of topic.

what kind of insinuations about how she got her position.  She's not pretty or anything.  Unless she is the bosses daughter; I don't see how she got her position other then earning it.

 

[caver]

Rosie DiManno says Carlyle isn't getting fired:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2014/04/15/blame_delusional_players_not_randy_carlyle_for_leafs_collapse_dimanno.html

I love it when the media reaffirms my stance by having the least reputable of their brethren spew out a bunch of crap. Carlyle is done with the Leafs.

I certainly hope so... this is a pretty soft article. Not buyin' it !

 

[Redleaf]

Kessel/Bernier too good to get into those sweepstakes, even with Dandy Randy.

Probably, but, a little more regression here, a little more roster shaping to Randy's out of date style there . . . toss an almost certain drop off in shootout success (as has been the case with every other team that had a really successful shoot out season - expect the Leafs to be closer  to .500 in it next season) and they might not be all that far out of it.

Maybe.  I was thinking in terms of possession it would be hard to get worse than they were, they've already given up a record number of shots in a season...I don't know how much further they could fall, and I think Bernier would prevent them from falling that far (I don't consider a 2% #1 chance or whatever like this season to be a lottery team either).  That's not accounting for an injury to Bernier or whatever.  Would just be difficult to be that bad again with this roster.

It also worries me when I hear people say it couldn't get worse.

lol

EDIT: Let me clarify my lulz - I didn't say they couldn't get worse.  I said it would be difficult to be worse than how badly they were outshot, and how badly they were possession-wise.  It would be difficult for NHL players to drop further below those numbers, as they are among the lowest of the low - so even the worst teams have been around those numbers.  Unless Glenn Healy straps the pads on I think it would be quite the feat to be that bad again with a roster that shouldn't be that bad.

First of all, there's no need to be rude.

I really believe this team could still be looking from the outside in, at playoff time next year, unless they make significant changes that pay off quickly to start the season. It won't be as easy as hiring a new coach to fix this mess and have this team suddenly propelled into working harder every night.  And, as we've just been witness to, this club is so dependent upon just a handful of players that can make or break their season. Another key injury to one or two of those guys and it's sink to the bottom time all over again. Maybe happens a little earlier this time and lasts a little longer. I'm not saying all this will happen, only that it wouldn't be all that difficult for this team to get worse.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm a little more loose after the season, but that went on a tad too long for me.

 

[Leaflifer]

Kessel/Bernier too good to get into those sweepstakes, even with Dandy Randy.

Probably, but, a little more regression here, a little more roster shaping to Randy's out of date style there . . . toss an almost certain drop off in shootout success (as has been the case with every other team that had a really successful shoot out season - expect the Leafs to be closer  to .500 in it next season) and they might not be all that far out of it.

Maybe.  I was thinking in terms of possession it would be hard to get worse than they were, they've already given up a record number of shots in a season...I don't know how much further they could fall, and I think Bernier would prevent them from falling that far (I don't consider a 2% #1 chance or whatever like this season to be a lottery team either).  That's not accounting for an injury to Bernier or whatever.  Would just be difficult to be that bad again with this roster.

It also worries me when I hear people say it couldn't get worse.

lol

EDIT: Let me clarify my lulz - I didn't say they couldn't get worse.  I said it would be difficult to be worse than how badly they were outshot, and how badly they were possession-wise.  It would be difficult for NHL players to drop further below those numbers, as they are among the lowest of the low - so even the worst teams have been around those numbers.  Unless Glenn Healy straps the pads on I think it would be quite the feat to be that bad again with a roster that shouldn't be that bad.

First of all, there's no need to be rude.

I really believe this team could still be looking from the outside in, at playoff time next year, unless they make significant changes that pay off quickly to start the season. It won't be as easy as hiring a new coach to fix this mess and have this team suddenly propelled into working harder every night.  And, as we've just been witness to, this club is so dependent upon just a handful of players that can make or break their season. Another key injury to one or two of those guys and it's sink to the bottom time all over again. Maybe happens a little earlier this time and lasts a little longer. I'm not saying all this will happen, only that it wouldn't be all that difficult for this team to get worse.

I'm a little more optimistic. The Leafs have goaltending and can score. Those are 2 things to build around. It's possible that the addition of a veteran or two plus a different approach from coaching could improve consistency. That seems to be the biggest problem. That certainly wont make them contenders, but it could get them up to another level.

 

[Courtnall]

The core of this team is too soft and lacks character. They're skilled but that's all. 3 colossal collapses in three years speaks volumes to the character of this team. Time to retool and make big changes.

 

[Redleaf]

Kessel/Bernier too good to get into those sweepstakes, even with Dandy Randy.

Probably, but, a little more regression here, a little more roster shaping to Randy's out of date style there . . . toss an almost certain drop off in shootout success (as has been the case with every other team that had a really successful shoot out season - expect the Leafs to be closer  to .500 in it next season) and they might not be all that far out of it.

Maybe.  I was thinking in terms of possession it would be hard to get worse than they were, they've already given up a record number of shots in a season...I don't know how much further they could fall, and I think Bernier would prevent them from falling that far (I don't consider a 2% #1 chance or whatever like this season to be a lottery team either).  That's not accounting for an injury to Bernier or whatever.  Would just be difficult to be that bad again with this roster.

It also worries me when I hear people say it couldn't get worse.

lol

EDIT: Let me clarify my lulz - I didn't say they couldn't get worse.  I said it would be difficult to be worse than how badly they were outshot, and how badly they were possession-wise.  It would be difficult for NHL players to drop further below those numbers, as they are among the lowest of the low - so even the worst teams have been around those numbers.  Unless Glenn Healy straps the pads on I think it would be quite the feat to be that bad again with a roster that shouldn't be that bad.

First of all, there's no need to be rude.

I really believe this team could still be looking from the outside in, at playoff time next year, unless they make significant changes that pay off quickly to start the season. It won't be as easy as hiring a new coach to fix this mess and have this team suddenly propelled into working harder every night.  And, as we've just been witness to, this club is so dependent upon just a handful of players that can make or break their season. Another key injury to one or two of those guys and it's sink to the bottom time all over again. Maybe happens a little earlier this time and lasts a little longer. I'm not saying all this will happen, only that it wouldn't be all that difficult for this team to get worse.

I'm a little more optimistic. The Leafs have goaltending and can score. Those are 2 things to build around. It's possible that the addition of a veteran or two plus a different approach from coaching could improve consistency. That seems to be the biggest problem. That certainly wont make them contenders, but it could get them up to another level.

I blame MLSE for the state of this franchise. They had an opportunity after the cap kicked in, to do a full and proper rebuild. Instead, just like they operated before the cap, they chose to fast track it. Here we are today with an improperly built team with some talent but no gumption or drive.

No one can perform miracles, but I hope Shanahan can at least make some drastic changes for the good and give this team a shot it the arm this off season.

 

[93forever]

We can all agree that the team needs to be better defensively.  That is exactly what carlyle said he was preaching all year.  If only the players responded to that message.  If the players don't play for now two coaches, maybe we need to change the core players.

The players played as if they tuned Carlyle out so they were not listening to his message.

They also tuned out wilson and maurice before that.  Playing bad defensively in toronto has been around since the first lockout.

A coach with an established system that had success with other teams can make a team with average defencemen look even better, but the Leafs have never hired a coach such as that in years.

I do not think they tuned out Maurice or Wilson, they just did not have decent lineups that had the skill set to play under any coach.  With some minor tweaking and under a good defensive system, this team can have success.

 

[Highlander]

Agreed totally with 93, this team is 3 to 4 pieces away from contending with the proper coach in regards to possession.