Tavares

[cabber24]

Now that Lou is on the island, I don't see us getting Tavares.  It  was a dream I knew as a Leaf fan would fall apart somehow, and it did.  Oh well I guess the center issue will go another route.  Bummer though... Them three would have been awesome.

Lou being here, the Islanders, or any other team doesn't really have that much of an impact on things. The truth is, if Tavares has already decided he'd prefer to stay with NYI, whoever was in charge would have been able to get that done. If he already decided to hit the open market, the Leafs still have as much chance to sign him as they did before. And, if he's undecided, Lou isn't going to move the needle much, as the reason he's undecided is not going to be significantly impacted by having another person as part of the front office without the core group of decision makers being removed or significantly altered.

I think Lou being in NY might alter the equation for Tavares staying put.  The Islanders have been viewed as a joke organization with no direction for quite a few years now.  With Lou in place, at least they are now perceived as having a strong voice at the top, no more outside distractions with the team, everyone pulling in the same direction yada yada yada.  I think the biggest reason Tavares would have for leaving is the fact that the Islanders had no clear direction with Garth Snow running things, at least now Lou can sell him on a vision of bringing back the Islander glory years, complete with cap circumvention in some way shape or form.

He needs to go, he owes the Islanders nothing. To little to late. Terribly ownership over the years, a bad arena, Dipietro, bad management, why not make your current backup a GM?

 

[Kin]

I think the biggest reason Tavares would have for leaving is the fact that the Islanders had no clear direction with Garth Snow running things, at least now Lou can sell him on a vision of bringing back the Islander glory years, complete with cap circumvention in some way shape or form.

I don't really think that makes sense. Lamoriello can "sell" him on that...how? What evidence is there that he's any more or less persuasive on that front than Snow would be? What specifics could he lay out?

I'm guessing that if Tavares ever talked to Snow about the team's "direction" that Snow had an answer and there's no reason to think that Lamoriello's answer would be any better.

Especially for a middling team there is no easy path to go from middling, where the Islanders are, to being great(and there's absolutely no way any team can realistically reach the heights of the Islanders at their best). Usually that would involve tearing things down, something Tavares probably wouldn't want to be a part of.

This seems to be more attribution of magic powers to Lamoriello and awfully light on the specifics of this "direction".

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't really think that makes sense. Lamoriello can "sell" him on that...how? What evidence is there that he's any more or less persuasive on that front than Snow would be? What specifics could he lay out?

I'm guessing that if Tavares ever talked to Snow about the team's "direction" that Snow had an answer and there's no reason to think that Lamoriello's answer would be any better.

Especially for a middling team there is no easy path to go from middling, where the Islanders are, to being great(and there's absolutely no way any team can realistically reach the heights of the Islanders at their best). Usually that would involve tearing things down, something Tavares probably wouldn't want to be a part of.

This seems to be more attribution of magic powers to Lamoriello and awfully light on the specifics of this "direction".

Hockey players aren't exactly the brightest bunch though. I mean the fact that Tavares is even considering re-signing with the team sorta proves that. I wouldn't be surprised if he buys into whatever mumbo-jumbo Lou tells him. Even if Lou and Snow are basically saying the same thing it'll sound more impressive coming from Lou's mouth.

 

[Kin]

Hockey players aren't exactly the brightest bunch though. I mean the fact that Tavares is even considering re-signing with the team sorta proves that. I wouldn't be surprised if he buys into whatever mumbo-jumbo Lou tells him. Even if Lou and Snow are basically saying the same thing it'll sound more impressive coming from Lou's mouth.

No arguments on the hockey players being dopes point but I wouldn't necessarily chalk up Tavares considering the Islanders to that. Maybe he likes living there, maybe he's got a girlfriend who does, maybe he's generally loyal to the organization...there are real world considerations.

For all of the crap I gave Shane Doan over the years the worst I could really say is that I don't think he ever really cared too much about winning(or playing in front of a lively crowd). Making his decisions based on where he wants to live or wanting to keep his kids in school are fair considerations even if they fall outside of the hyper-competiveness we might want out of athletes.

Because it's not like we've heard anything to the effect of "Since talking to Lamoriello, Tavares is a no on staying but now he's a maybe or yes". We might, but I still think Snow could have pulled a lot of the same strings. Leaving wasn't going to be an easy decision either way.

 

[Frank E]

I think we also should remember that these players have agents for a reason, and Tavares' agent could be telling him to sit tight and wait for the offers, then make a deal with the Islanders based on market, if indeed he's comfortable with the organization and wants to stay.

Really, for all we know, Tavares has no intention of moving on from New York.

 

[herman]

Tavares' fiancee is from Ontario if that changes the picture in any way.

 

[Zee]

Tavares' fiancee is from Ontario if that changes the picture in any way.

Is she a Leafs or Sens fan?

 

[herman]

Tavares' fiancee is from Ontario if that changes the picture in any way.

Is she a Leafs or Sens fan?

She's from the Durham region as far as I can tell. I don't know how far the radius of senators fandom extends, but I'd hazard she's not a sens fan.

 

[Kin]

Right, so, without needing to talk anymore about someone who isn't a public figure I think I can amend that part of my comment to "He may have non-hockey reasons for wanting to stay with NYI that are unchanged by this development".

 

[Bill_Berg]

Right, so, without needing to talk anymore about someone who isn't a public figure I think I can amend that part of my comment to "He may have non-hockey reasons for wanting to stay with NYI that are unchanged by this development".

Sunday night dinners at Garth's house?

 

[Highlander]

Right, so, without needing to talk anymore about someone who isn't a public figure I think I can amend that part of my comment to "He may have non-hockey reasons for wanting to stay with NYI that are unchanged by this development".

Sunday night dinners at Garth's house?

Come on now that would be a Snow job!

 

[herman]

https://theathletic.com/370615/2018/05/28/the-arguments-for-and-against-toronto-signing-john-tavares/

Assuming he is open to coming here:
a) would you want him?
b) what is your upper limit offer?

 

[Coco-puffs]

https://theathletic.com/370615/2018/05/28/the-arguments-for-and-against-toronto-signing-john-tavares/

Assuming he is open to coming here:
a) would you want him?
b) what is your upper limit offer?

a) Yes.
b) 10M x 7

 

[Kin]

I'd be open to it if he came at a discount. Coco-Puffs probably has it with the upper limit I'd be good with.

 

[Coco-puffs]

I'd be open to it if he came at a discount. Coco-Puffs probably has it with the upper limit I'd be good with.

Yeah, as much as I want the Stamkos money (8.5M x 8 ) he's not going to leave THAT much on the table.  He will get offers up to 12M I'd think.  10M would be a discount (while still being 8 figures) which is probably as low as he'd go.

 

[Kin]

Yeah, as much as I want the Stamkos money (8.5M x 8 ) he's not going to leave THAT much on the table.  He will get offers up to 12M I'd think.  10M would be a discount (while still being 8 figures) which is probably as low as he'd go.

I think you're probably right about that but all I'd say is I've given up on trying to say with any certainty what sort of deals guys will or won't sign or with who. I don't think there's as much rhyme or reason as we'd like to think.

 

[herman]

I'd be okay going up to 12M for Tavares, even if it bites into our defense budget. The cap is set to go up next season. Holl is a cheaper and potentially better alternative to our other in-house options at the moment, and I'm hard pressed to find an affordable RD on the market that I'd be interested in (Frason maaaaybe). Liljegren is a season away, and he'll be <1M for three years (i.e. halfway through Tavares').

I think we have one of the best young winger groups in the league he could play with, with centre support behind (and in front of) him.

 

[Zee]

I'd be okay going up to 12M for Tavares, even if it bites into our defense budget. The cap is set to go up next season. Holl is a cheaper and potentially better alternative to our other in-house options at the moment, and I'm hard pressed to find an affordable RD on the market that I'd be interested in (Frason maaaaybe). Liljegren is a season away, and he'll be <1M for three years (i.e. halfway through Tavares').

I think we have one of the best young winger groups in the league he could play with, with centre support behind (and in front of) him.

Problem is we'd have to have a lot of D on low numbers if Tavares is getting 12M.  With Tavares, Matthews, Marner and Nylander, that's a huge chunk of the cap.  Kadri is on a great cap number, but we'd probably have to let Gardiner go before his next contract and have someone way cheaper eating up his minutes.

 

[Bullfrog]

I'd be okay going up to 12M for Tavares, even if it bites into our defense budget. The cap is set to go up next season. Holl is a cheaper and potentially better alternative to our other in-house options at the moment, and I'm hard pressed to find an affordable RD on the market that I'd be interested in (Frason maaaaybe). Liljegren is a season away, and he'll be <1M for three years (i.e. halfway through Tavares').

I think we have one of the best young winger groups in the league he could play with, with centre support behind (and in front of) him.

Holl will be 26.75 years old when the season starts and he has two NHL games under his belt. Time to move on.

 

[herman]

I'd be okay going up to 12M for Tavares, even if it bites into our defense budget. The cap is set to go up next season. Holl is a cheaper and potentially better alternative to our other in-house options at the moment, and I'm hard pressed to find an affordable RD on the market that I'd be interested in (Frason maaaaybe). Liljegren is a season away, and he'll be <1M for three years (i.e. halfway through Tavares').

I think we have one of the best young winger groups in the league he could play with, with centre support behind (and in front of) him.

Problem is we'd have to have a lot of D on low numbers if Tavares is getting 12M.  With Tavares, Matthews, Marner and Nylander, that's a huge chunk of the cap.  Kadri is on a great cap number, but we'd probably have to let Gardiner go before his next contract and have someone way cheaper eating up his minutes.

Hey there, have you heard of this guy named Travis Dermott? or trade Zaitsev?

The thing is, I don't believe we need an expensive back end (i.e. money for points). We just need better skaters/puckhandlers and a forward group that has a scheme to support the break out.