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The 2014 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

Nik the Trik said:
Kind of an interesting chart from MLBTraderumours about the salary commitments around the league for next year as well as the projected arbitration numbers. The Jays are already committed to more than a 100 million dollars and around 20 million is their projected arbitration number. Something to keep in mind when talking about free agents/trades:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/11/2015-payroll-obligations-by-team.html

2015-payroll-hi-lo.png

It is a good point.  They also did one looking beyond 2015 looking at future cap implications:

future-obligations-v2.png
 
Deebo said:
Jon Heymand is reporting that the Jays have "are signing" Russell Martin to a 5 year contract.

Peter Gammons is saying it's for "McCann money," meaning in the $17M-$20M range per season.


EDIT:

Ken_Rosenthal: Source: Martin deal with #BlueJays is five years, $82M.

So, just a touch less than McCann's 5 year, $85M contract.
 
That's a pretty crazy contract for a player who's 31 and just had his first good offensive season in years.
 
The Jays also lose their 1st round pick in the 2015 draft because of this signing. Nice to see them aggressively going after top free agents and all, but, I'm not sure Martin was the guy to target.
 
Here's a blurb from a write-up of Martin in a "Best Bargains of the 2015 Free Agent Class" post (though Martin came in higher than the article pegs him at):

I know: a five year deal for a 32 year old catcher is what passes for a top-three bargain these days? By the end of the deal, Martin probably won?t be a catcher anymore, even if the crowd is right about the length of the deal he ends up taking. This contract is almost certainly going to result in some dead money in the last year or two of the contract, so for it to be a bargain, Martin is going to have to produce significantly more than $15 million per year worth of value up front.

And I think he very well might. For one, his plate discipline isn?t going anywhere, so even if his power goes away, he?s got a decently high offensive floor, as declining down to the level of Ryan Hanigan wouldn?t make Martin useless. And Martin doesn?t even have to hit for that much power to be a very good player; his career ISO is only .141, and that?s been enough to help him post a 106 wRC+. Martin looks like a pretty good bet to be something like a league average hitter for the next few years, and a catcher who can hit at league average levels is pretty valuable.

Especially because we?re not capturing all of his defensive value. Per StatCorner, Martin?s value by framing runs, by season since 2007: +25, +31, +23, +10, +29, +24, +17, +12. Even if we don?t believe that the actual value of these runs is as high as the current estimates ? I?m in that camp ? and cut these values in half, Martin looks like about a +1 win framer, and this is another skill that has been show to age well. Steamer?s projection for Martin?s 2015 performance has him worth +3.6 WAR per 450 plate appearances, and that?s without any framing value; include it in the calculation, and Martin might just be the best free agent on the market this winter.

Of course, I made a very similar argument about McCann last year, and that didn?t work out so well in year one. But at $15 million per year for four or five years, Martin seems like a very reasonable bet to me, at least, relative to the other bets that free agency offers.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-bargains-of-the-2015-free-agent-class/
 
Russell Martin for 5 years at that money and term. I can't sign I understand it. Was there a glaring need for a Catcher?

I guess Sandoval and Carbrera are asking for more.

I'd rather have Cano at 8 million more a year and twice as long.

Oh to turn back the clock.

Edit: I guess Martin will slide over to first from time to time?
 
Not that it necessarily means all that much, but the insiders all have the Jays aggressively pursuing the top free agents on the market. It's been reported that the Tigers were concerned about being outbid by the Jays for VMart, that the Jays are seriously pursuing Lester and Andrew Miller, and that they've been in touch with the likes of Markasis, Hanley Ramirez, etc. There's also rumours that Utley or Kendrik rejected a potential trade to the Jays. For better or worse, it sounds like AA is really going for it right now.
 
dappleganger said:
Russell Martin for 5 years at that money and term. I can't sign I understand it. Was there a glaring need for a Catcher?

I guess Sandoval and Carbrera are asking for more.

I'd rather have Cano at 8 million more a year and twice as long.

Oh to turn back the clock.

Edit: I guess Martin will slide over to first from time to time?

Maybe this will help: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/blue-jays-commit-to-playoff-race-sign-russell-martin/
 
bustaheims said:
Not that it necessarily means all that much, but the insiders all have the Jays aggressively pursuing the top free agents on the market. It's been reported that the Tigers were concerned about being outbid by the Jays for VMart, that the Jays are seriously pursuing Lester and Andrew Miller, and that they've been in touch with the likes of Markasis, Hanley Ramirez, etc. There's also rumours that Utley or Kendrik rejected a potential trade to the Jays. For better or worse, it sounds like AA is really going for it right now.

Well that would certainly make the most sense. I don't see why Toronto would give up a 1st and commit that much money and term to a 31yr old catcher only to downgrade in the OF and not improve the team anywhere else.

I imagine the thinking is now the 1st round compensation is off the table and they can sign some more FA's without that penalty. Otherwise... yikes.
 
Andy007 said:
bustaheims said:
Not that it necessarily means all that much, but the insiders all have the Jays aggressively pursuing the top free agents on the market. It's been reported that the Tigers were concerned about being outbid by the Jays for VMart, that the Jays are seriously pursuing Lester and Andrew Miller, and that they've been in touch with the likes of Markasis, Hanley Ramirez, etc. There's also rumours that Utley or Kendrik rejected a potential trade to the Jays. For better or worse, it sounds like AA is really going for it right now.

Well that would certainly make the most sense. I don't see why Toronto would give up a 1st and commit that much money and term to a 31yr old catcher only to downgrade in the OF and not improve the team anywhere else.

I don't know that losing Melky is that big of a deal the more I look at it, or at least as big of a deal as I originally thought.  His fielding really takes away from what his offensive production provides (Andrew Stoeten writes that he's projected to produce 1.7 WAR next season) and says:

The worst-case-scenario of some combination of Andy Dirks, Kevin Pillar, and John Mayberry Jr. in left field for the Jays in 2015 may not be great, but they could certainly give you replacement level production at the very least. Almost certainly even more.

http://andrewstoeten.com/2014/11/17/russell-martin-is-a-blue-jay-and-if-that-paves-the-way-for-melkys-exit-thats-fine/

EDIT: Just announced:

@JonHeymanCBS 

russell martin contract breakdown, for deal that is now official: 7M, 15M, 20M, 20M, 20M

Which is relevant considering this section of Stoeten's article:

At the time of this writing we don?t yet know the structure of the deal, but the key is that the Jays have plenty of freedom to backload it. Add Martin?s $16.4-million AAV to the club?s 2016 commitments and that number rises to just $43.6-million, and just $75.6-million if you assume the options for Jose Bautista, Edwin Encarnacion, and R.A. Dickey are picked up. In 2017 the only current commitments are Martin and Reyes, to the tune of about $38-million.

If $140-million payrolls are the new reality ? and we certainly don?t know that they are, but a strong 2015 will go a long way to make the case ? that is a lot of room for future extensions and additions, even with Martin now on the books. Cashing in a reasonably-sized portion of that flexibility for the chance to take on a guy of his calibre seems to me to be a tremendous idea? provided you?re willing to bet on the player going forward.
 
Supposedly, at this stage, with these signings, Jays fans have raised their expectations of the team.  An eye towards improvement on the field transcends into better positional placings in the standings, is one thing that baseball critics will hold the organization accountable for, if not for some sort of decision-makings that affect the team overall.
 
Potvin29 said:
@jonahkeri

Working on MLB Trade Value columns, which run next week. Had/have Josh Donaldson as 22nd-most valuable commodity in MLB.

Getting Donaldson could be a huge coup. He's one of the best 3B in baseball right now, and under team control for longer than Lawrie. The Jays sacrificed a couple quality pitching prospects in Graveman and Nolin in this deal, and Barreto looks promising as an 18 year old, but, still . . . this is a move made by a team that's going for it.
 
bustaheims said:
Potvin29 said:
@jonahkeri

Working on MLB Trade Value columns, which run next week. Had/have Josh Donaldson as 22nd-most valuable commodity in MLB.

Getting Donaldson could be a huge coup. He's one of the best 3B in baseball right now, and under team control for longer than Lawrie. The Jays sacrificed a couple quality pitching prospects in Graveman and Nolin in this deal, and Barreto looks promising as an 18 year old, but, still . . . this is a move made by a team that's going for it.

Yup.  As Bruce Arthur just put it, they have an order that can go some variation of Reyes, Russell, Bautista, Encarnacion, Donaldson right now.  That's good.
 

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